How to Preflight a Flight Options Citation X

[Fedmagnet]

It is time to spread the knowledge.
Please post any thing that you have learned through experience on preflighting a Flight Options Citation X.

 

[Diesel]

Walk out to plane.

Look at it... from about..
50 feet = 5 items
25 feet = 20 items
10 feet = 25 items
5 feet= get a new pen, and copy a lot more writeup sheets.

Walk back inside and call mx.

 

[skanza]

It is time to spread the knowledge.
Please post any thing that you have learned through experience on preflighting a Flight Options Citation X.

Dude, what's your agenda anyways? You want to know how to preflight *break* a Legacy, Ten, and a Beechjet. I know you don't really want to know common things found on a preflight, or you wouldn't have specified a "Flight Options" Legacy, Citation Ten, etc...

 

[400A]

Dude, what's your agenda anyways? You want to know how to preflight *break* a Legacy, Ten, and a Beechjet. I know you don't really want to know common things found on a preflight, or you wouldn't have specified a "Flight Options" Legacy, Citation Ten, etc...

His agenda is to put his company out of business. It is a contract negotiating tactic.

While I do not support anyone who operates broken aircraft. This is a little extreme.

I wish you guys the best in your contract negotiations. You deserve it. I just do not think this is the way to do it.

 

[skyismyoffice]

How do you suggest we do it?

 

[Fedmagnet]

The knowledge shared here could save a life. Share the knowledge.

 

[skanza]

His agenda is to put his company out of business. It is a contract negotiating tactic.

While I do not support anyone who operates broken aircraft. This is a little extreme.

I wish you guys the best in your contract negotiations. You deserve it. I just do not think this is the way to do it.

Thank you for noticing my point. That illustrates my problem with these people all along. Why would you put the company that you are trying to get more money from out of business? It just doesn't make sense. I see it as the whole " biting the hand tha feeds" dilemma. And, you end up taking out a bunch of other people that depend on the company that are niether pro-union or anti-union, they just want to work.
Why????

 

[jetwash]

What method would you suggest?

Negotiation for 5 or 6 years

 

[higgy]

Dude, what's your agenda anyways? You want to know how to preflight *break* a Legacy, Ten, and a Beechjet. I know you don't really want to know common things found on a preflight, or you wouldn't have specified a "Flight Options" Legacy, Citation Ten, etc...

His agenda is to get a contract. If more people thought like he did you would of had it by now. They are not going to give a dime unless they have too. BTW Netjets wouldn't of come close to a industry leading contract if we wouldn't of shared his agenda. Im glad to see some one trying to earn a contract instead of burring their heads in the sand waiting for management to give them a pay raise out of the kindness of their own hearts.

 

[400A]

What method would you suggest?

Negotiation for 5 or 6 years

I think the stand that Net Jets took was more professional. Please understand I am not looking to start a name calling war or a Flame battle.

The major difference I see is that Net Jets had a little more financial base to answer the demands with. When Options can not even pay its creditors, then I do not know how they will give the crews raises.

I agree, you guys are treated like crap and lied to on a regular basis. I think maybe management knows that Options may not be quite as unified as Net Jets. A few Pilots writing up every MX discrepancy they can find will not accomplish anything other than giving yourself a bad name.
Just do not forget that you may need a reference some day and if you were always grounding aircraft it may come back to haunt you. As I have said before, I do not expect anyone to fly unsafe aircraft, but running up more MX bills that they can not pay may be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[jetwash]

I have to say that in the past few months the condition of the Flight Options aircraft have dramaticly improved.

The owners and pax can be assured that the aircraft are in perfect working order. Their investment in the aircraft is being kept up.

If a flight is delayed because of a MX problem and it can't be Mel'd that means it is a serious safety issue.

As for what happened at Netjets ask a few of their pilots what finally caused management to negociate.

 

[theskyking]

The Pledge.

 

[skyismyoffice]

I think the stand that Net Jets took was more professional. Please understand I am not looking to start a name calling war or a Flame battle.

We are both IBT 1108 and the 'stand' we are taking is that which they took. In fact they blazed the trail we are following. While some may be going to extremes most of our pilot group is "doing nothing illegal for or against the company" and it's working just fine.

The major difference I see is that Net Jets had a little more financial base to answer the demands with. When Options can not even pay its creditors, then I do not know how they will give the crews raises.

What creditors haven't they paid?

I agree, you guys are treated like crap and lied to on a regular basis. I think maybe management knows that Options may not be quite as unified as Net Jets.

Unity is building on a daily basis - Thanks to the company.

A few Pilots writing up every MX discrepancy they can find will not accomplish anything other than giving yourself a bad name.

If it's broken it needs to be addressed, that's the law.

Just do not forget that you may need a reference some day and if you were always grounding aircraft it may come back to haunt you.

If I need a reference I surely won't be asking one of our mechanics or director of mx? There are lots of great guys flying at FLOPs that I would gladly give a reference and I suspect they would do the same for me.

As I have said before, I do not expect anyone to fly unsafe aircraft, but running up more MX bills that they can not pay may be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Again I say " If it's broken it must be addressed and that's the law."

 

[400A]

MX often cut options off due to lack of payment.

Charter operations often cut options off due to lack of payment(including the one I flew for)

I have flown Charter back-up for Options and have had the FBO ask up front if I was paying myself.

You are correct, Net Jets did blaze a trail, but they stood as one.

Mechanic's will not give references, nor will your pilot buddies. They will call management.

Write up all the discrepancies you want, I could care less. Just remember, if you are going to tow the line on MX, you better tow it on ops as well. In addition to that, once you get your contract, your opinion of what you should write up can never change. After all, as you say, legal is legal. Even if it makes you get stuck at an outstation on day seven, just because part of a sticker is missing

Best of Luck.

 

[jetwash]

After all, as you say, legal is legal. Even if it makes you get stuck at an outstation on day seven, just because part of a sticker is missing

Best of Luck.

I do a good preflight on day one and would not let anything go for 1 day let alone 7 days.

And YES even with a contract safety will be important to me and my PAX will expect nothing less.

 

[Freedom]

You Sir need to do your homework

His agenda is to put his company out of business. It is a contract negotiating tactic.

While I do not support anyone who operates broken aircraft. This is a little extreme.

I wish you guys the best in your contract negotiations. You deserve it. I just do not think this is the way to do it.

Ask several NetJets Pilots what got them their Contract and you will hear the words: "The Pledge"

Our Lawyers have told us not to use the term because they feel the scum bag lawyers over at Ford and Harrison might sue us if we did, claiming an illegal job action.

There are copies of the Pledge floating around from the NetJets battle days, but in essense, it said not to do the company ANY favors during negotiations and to fly by the book. Both totally legal techniques I might add.

This technique however is only effective when the vast majority of the Pilots take it upon themselves to execute it.

The Pilots are the grease that keeps a Corporate Jet fleet operating. Read between the lines. Without our cooperation, things will naturally slow to a crawl.

No. I don't want to wait 5 or 6 years for a contract. I want to motivate Management to stop dragging their feet NOW.

How about the rest of you? Its legal. In mass, its effective. Let's stand shoulder to shoulder and demand a Contract!

Freedom is not Free.

 

[WabiSabi]

Thank you for noticing my point. That illustrates my problem with these people all along. Why would you put the company that you are trying to get more money from out of business? It just doesn't make sense. I see it as the whole " biting the hand tha feeds" dilemma.

Management wants you to think exactly that. If you want a contract, this chicken$hit not biting the hand that feeds mentality has to stop.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees."
Emiliano Zapata

And, you end up taking out a bunch of other people that depend on the company that are niether pro-union or anti-union, they just want to work.
Why????

There should be no one on the fence. FLOPS is a union shop, period. Once a contract is negotiated, the fence sitters will benefit so they had better stop slacking off and practice some solidarity instead of riding the coat tails of those who are practicing solidarity. I have more respect for a pro management pilot than I do a fence sitter. At least he takes a stand.

 

[TheBigMan]

Bump !

management wants you to think exactly that. If you want a contract, this chicken$hit not biting the hand that feeds mentality has to stop.

"it is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees."
emiliano zapata



there should be no one on the fence. Flops is a union shop, period. Once a contract is negotiated, the fence sitters will benefit so they had better stop slacking off and practice some solidarity instead of riding the coat tails of those who are practicing solidarity. I have more respect for a pro management pilot than i do a fence sitter. At least he takes a stand.

 

[nhfootball]

Interesting concept - I like it

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

There should be no one on the fence. FLOPS is a union shop, period. Once a contract is negotiated, the fence sitters will benefit so they had better stop slacking off and practice some solidarity instead of riding the coat tails of those who are practicing solidarity. I have more respect for a pro management pilot than I do a fence sitter. At least he takes a stand.

I know who you are talking about now. Captain Coat tails. He is nothing more than a parasite that sits on the sidelines and he has the nerve to complain about others not working hard enough? Doesn't that boy have any self-respect?

 

[shanes123]

Nope. He is a narcissist. And when he walks away thinking he's impressed everyone he doesn't seeing them rolling their eyes and mumbling about him behind his back.