How not to train instrument students

[Donsa320]

When I instructed in 172's, I supervised power-on stalls with a student in the left seat and the back seat. As long as the CG is within limits, you can perform power-on stalls. This was done both VFR and under the hood. Obviously, you need to keep the coordination/yaw in check though.

Oh, Lordy, I know you mean well but most 4 seat airplane hand books prohibit any stalls with the rear seat(s) occupied. It is rediculous I know but that is the way it is now.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Oh, Lordy, I know you mean well but most 4 seat airplane hand books prohibit any stalls with the rear seat(s) occupied. It is rediculous I know but that is the way it is now.

I'm left feeling a bit smitten, then. My old instructors did it and so did I. :blush:

 

[7574EVER]

Oh, Lordy, I know you mean well but most 4 seat airplane hand books prohibit any stalls with the rear seat(s) occupied. It is rediculous I know but that is the way it is now.

They do? I've seen the prohibition of spins with the rear seats occupied; but, I've never seen any restriction on stalls. Which aircraft have this restriction?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

They do? I've seen the prohibition of spins with the rear seats occupied; but, I've never seen any restriction on stalls. Which aircraft have this restriction?

I haven't looked at a Cessna/Piper POH in a long while. Did they recently prohibit all stalls with a rear seat passenger?

Perhaps. Logically speaking though, a student needs to know how to recover from a departure stall with a person in the back (this is real world). Teechnically, if the CG and weight are within limits and the departure stall is performed in coordinated flight, there shouldn't be an issue with performing them.

It's also important to demonstrate to students the different handling characteristics outside of the CFI-only regime which is so common. The weight and CG differences will be more pronounced with an added load in the back.

 

[WMUchickenhawk]

I looked through my 172R POH and only found a limitation on spins with back seaters. My Cirrus POH prohibits spins altogether, but I see nothing about stalls with a back seater. I know when I was student we used to do them all the time, and now that I am instructing I still do.

 

[ALIMBO]

When I was going for my comm multi we did partial panel spins with foggels and one engine simulated at zero thrust.

 

[7574EVER]

When I was going for my comm multi we did partial panel spins with foggels and one engine simulated at zero thrust.

BUT...did you have somebody in the back seat??

 

[ALIMBO]

Naw just me an Sheloy but I forgot to add she was going down on me when we were doing the maneuver. Don't worry guys we cleared the area first.

 

[7574EVER]

Naw just me an Sheloy but I forgot to add she was going down on me when we were doing the maneuver. Don't worry guys we cleared the area first.

Well then for her sake I hope SHE was the one wearing the foggles.....

That sight is something no human being should ever have to be subjected to!

 

[ALIMBO]

You mother********************er.

 

[Donsa320]

I haven't looked at a Cessna/Piper POH in a long while. Did they recently prohibit all stalls with a rear seat passenger?

Perhaps. Logically speaking though, a student needs to know how to recover from a departure stall with a person in the back (this is real world). Teechnically, if the CG and weight are within limits and the departure stall is performed in coordinated flight, there shouldn't be an issue with performing them.

It's also important to demonstrate to students the different handling characteristics outside of the CFI-only regime which is so common. The weight and CG differences will be more pronounced with an added load in the back.

Yep, I feel the same way. BTW I saw it in limitations for a C-172 and a PA-28-140 but I do not recall the year models and I'm guessing that older books won't have the limitation. And it was in "Limitations". I would venture it was written by lawyers.
They lumped stalls in with mild aerobatics, arg!
So you really could not get around it with sand bags since the CG would be out of the utility range IMHO. Be careful out there.

 

[phr8dawg]

One of my college roomies decided to take his high-school buddies up for a spin. Four of them in a 172. Nobody survived. I also met an MEI once who bragged about VMC rollovers in his school twin and how he took it to one and a half turns. There are some idiots who just go too far. Let the past NTSB records tell the stories.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Hey man, I've banked over 60 degrees without a parachute! - and still lived to tell about it.

Agreeably, anyone who VMC's a twin or spins four occupants isn't too bright a candle though.

 

[Donsa320]

Hey man, I've banked over 60 degrees without a parachute! - and still lived to tell about it.

Agreeably, anyone who VMC's a twin or spins four occupants isn't too bright a candle though.

Oh,oh. The definition of acrobatic flight has also changed, I hate to tell ya. No more hard limits in pitch and bank.

 

[OneBadLT123]

Back to the original video, did anyone NOT see what I saw at around the 2 minute mark?