How Northwest took over Delta

[crj567]

Steenland? Huh? I think he is now on the board, not in management anymore. But, you KNEW that....your expertise is overwhelming... Talk about pompous---at least know what you are talking about.

And, we are going to try to smash Airtran, but not wipe it away. We know the stakes, and the ex NWA guys have done a better job keeping the LCCs at bay. They now pretty much run the boat here (even though a Delta exec now runs NWA until SOC). Regardless, I will still do my new favorite route (Forteleza and Recife, Brazil) and ENJOY it. Bye now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, are you truly boneheaded enough to believe that a board seat is less powerful than a management role-especially with Steenland effectively running the board? The board members freaking hire/fire the management "team." Steenland has 4 of his boys on the board (not to mention Anderson.) You really think you can out-run that idiot and his board?

-Damn, you really are not very bright, sir.

P.S.-The threat SWA poses to DAL is far greater than AirTran ever has posed. Once agin, for slow learners like Gen Lee: SWA has a much better scale than DAL. They are better-sized to be profitable while offering lower fares. Part of the reason is that they have no expensive international routes in their total cost structure (which are turning into money-losing black holes, PDQ.) (Are you starting to question DAL's logic of dumping 40% of their flying in the international basket now?) Still not smart enough to see this one coming?

ATL passengers will jump on a SWA plane in a N.Y. second and fly to pretty much anywhere and everywhere in the country they choose (SWA has a kick-ass route structure these days.) Everyone will jump at the chance to go and see Grandma on SWA for $58 each way and stick it to the big airline that has charged $780 for the same trip all these years. This will be the demise of your beloved airline Gen, you can count on it.

DAL should be shoring AirTran up any way they can think of.

-If you still doubt this logic, I suggest you pull up a profit/loss statement for both SWA and DAL over the past couple of decades and put your little ferrett brain to work trying to figure out which airline has made truckloads of money vs. which airline lost many, many times more money than it made over the same period and left their poor investors with useless T.P. for stock.

-Just get back to me on that one, pompus sub commander toolpenguin!

 

[clippyrip]

Easy Turbo.

 

[General Lee]

General, are you truly boneheaded enough to believe that a board seat is less powerful than a management role-especially with Steenland effectively running the board? The board members freaking hire/fire the management "team." Steenland has 4 of his boys on the board (not to mention Anderson.) You really think you can out-run that idiot and his board?

-Damn, you really are not very bright, sir.

P.S.-The threat SWA poses to DAL is far greater than AirTran ever has posed. Once agin, for slow learners like Gen Lee: SWA has a much better scale than DAL. They are better-sized to be profitable while offering lower fares. Part of the reason is that they have no expensive international routes in their total cost structure (which are turning into money-losing black holes, PDQ.) (Are you starting to question DAL's logic of dumping 40% of their flying in the international basket now?) Still not smart enough to see this one coming?

ATL passengers will jump on a SWA plane in a N.Y. second and fly to pretty much anywhere and everywhere in the country they choose (SWA has a kick-ass route structure these days.) Everyone will jump at the chance to go and see Grandma on SWA for $58 each way and stick it to the big airline that has charged $780 for the same trip all these years. This will be the demise of your beloved airline Gen, you can count on it.

DAL should be shoring AirTran up any way they can think of.

-If you still doubt this logic, I suggest you pull up a profit/loss statement for both SWA and DAL over the past couple of decades and put your little ferrett brain to work trying to figure out which airline has made truckloads of money vs. which airline lost many, many times more money than it made over the same period and left their poor investors with useless T.P. for stock.

-Just get back to me on that one, pompus sub commander toolpenguin!

Wow, you sure can talk the talk, even though you are as clueless as they come. You really should have let the Capt land at SAV the other day. Do you think Richard Anderson would have allowed Steenland to go to the Board if it gave him MORE power? Steenland wanted to stay in the gravy train management, and RA wouldn't allow it. He is marginalized on the board. He has a say, but it aint enough to change anything. He does NOT run the board either. Nope. WRONG. RA wanted him out of running anything, and he got his way. No merger would have resulted, and that infact stopped the first attempt. You really aint bright it seems.


Southwest is a known entity, and infact has lost a lot of power thanks to lower gas. They actually have the sameor higher costs as many out there now, which makes them LESS of a threat. They have to charge MORE now, thanks to having a level playing field. Point to point stuff they do fairly well, but they lack connections, and NEED a lot of gates to keep their plan working. Even Gary Kelly said no more expansion this year, and small point to point stuff will be met by vigorous competition from the incumbent. Their MSP to MDW flights will be bombarded by NWA when they start it. We'll see how that goes, but they are not as stong as they were with the hedge advantage, and their fixed costs are rising thanks to higher contracts with employees. Should be fun to watch.

Profit or loss statements from the past decade for both carriers don't mean much now. Look at current financials. Yes, DL will have another bad quarter in Q1, but things are scheduled to get better from actual synergies (read ground people and gates) showing results. Southwest NEVER had bad quarters, and look how they are doing now? Not good news from them either. Playing field is becoming equal---not good news for ANY LCC. So, jackhole---maybe you can wrap your brain around some of that and finally figure it out---Southwest's advantage is going away, and our's will be coming to fruition when our own bad hedges go bye bye through out this year. I know you have a hard time dealing with reality. Whatever you do, please fill out a NASA form about that SAV deal, really. When you are done with that, then continue with the McD's resume.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[crj567]

Wow, you sure can talk the talk, even though you are as clueless as they come. You really should have let the Capt land at SAV the other day. Do you think Richard Anderson would have allowed Steenland to go to the Board if it gave him MORE power? Steenland wanted to stay in the gravy train management, and RA wouldn't allow it. He is marginalized on the board. He has a say, but it aint enough to change anything. He does NOT run the board either. Nope. WRONG. RA wanted him out of running anything, and he got his way. No merger would have resulted, and that infact stopped the first attempt. You really aint bright it seems.


Southwest is a known entity, and infact has lost a lot of power thanks to lower gas. They actually have the sameor higher costs as many out there now, which makes them LESS of a threat. They have to charge MORE now, thanks to having a level playing field. Point to point stuff they do fairly well, but they lack connections, and NEED a lot of gates to keep their plan working. Even Gary Kelly said no more expansion this year, and small point to point stuff will be met by vigorous competition from the incumbent. Their MSP to MDW flights will be bombarded by NWA when they start it. We'll see how that goes, but they are not as stong as they were with the hedge advantage, and their fixed costs are rising thanks to higher contracts with employees. Should be fun to watch.

Profit or loss statements from the past decade for both carriers don't mean much now. Look at current financials. Yes, DL will have another bad quarter in Q1, but things are scheduled to get better from actual synergies (read ground people and gates) showing results. Southwest NEVER had bad quarters, and look how they are doing now? Not good news from them either. Playing field is becoming equal---not good news for ANY LCC. So, jackhole---maybe you can wrap your brain around some of that and finally figure it out---Southwest's advantage is going away, and our's will be coming to fruition when our own bad hedges go bye bye through out this year. I know you have a hard time dealing with reality. Whatever you do, please fill out a NASA form about that SAV deal, really. When you are done with that, then continue with the McD's resume.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Ha-

Living, breathing proof that the word "synery" or any derivative thereof is only used by complete, absolute fools! Thanks for proving my theory yet again.

Only an absolute fool would think that Steenland is not running anything.... Corprations are controlled by boards of directors-Steenland inserted 4 of his closest allies on DAL's board-along with his own sorry ass. Not running anything? Just let me know how proud you are to have him when he sends YOU a memo advocating exploration of your neighbor's trash-during your next visit to BK.

Keep on racking up the McDonald's (profitable company,) SWA (extremely profitable company-at least compared to your smoking crater of an airline,) and Wal-Mart (also familiar with the ever-illusive profit) references..... You sure are racking up a lot of bad Karma, and I will genuinely LOVE to see it catch up to you.

If you still don't understand why SWA will kick the tar out of you, then you are simply un-teachable. That's O.K., because it will all be great in BK-AGAIN!

BTW-How many BILLION have you lost this year, and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that, etc. etc. etc.??????

-A truly inspired business model.... I think I will still bet on SWA winning this battle.

 

[General Lee]

Ha-

Living, breathing proof that the word "synery" or any derivative thereof is only used by complete, absolute fools! Thanks for proving my theory yet again.

Only an absolute fool would think that Steenland is not running anything.... Corprations are controlled by boards of directors-Steenland inserted 4 of his closest allies on DAL's board-along with his own sorry ass. Not running anything? Just let me know how proud you are to have him when he sends YOU a memo advocating exploration of your neighbor's trash-during your next visit to BK.

Keep on racking up the McDonald's (profitable company,) SWA (extremely profitable company-at least compared to your smoking crater of an airline,) and Wal-Mart (also familiar with the ever-illusive profit) references..... You sure are racking up a lot of bad Karma, and I will genuinely LOVE to see it catch up to you.

If you still don't understand why SWA will kick the tar out of you, then you are simply un-teachable. That's O.K., because it will all be great in BK-AGAIN!

BTW-How many BILLION have you lost this year, and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that, etc. etc. etc.??????

-A truly inspired business model.... I think I will still bet on SWA winning this battle.

I guess you don't understand corporate governance. Steenland isn't the CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD. He wanted that job, and RA said NO. He said no merger if that happened. Guess what? RA won. RA was Steenland's boss before, and didn't want a reversal of that. Go look it up on Wikipedia someday.....


How many BILLIONS have Delta lost? A lot, and that was before we went to BK primarily. That is why we and NWA went through the BK process, to rid ourselves of a lot of debt and expensive leases. We now have over $6 billion in cash combined, and even with these loses our cash flow has remained steady. We are ridding ourselves of the expensive hedges each upcoming quarter, and the "synergies" you love to talk about actually are more ground based---reservation systems, ground people, MX functions, gates, future fuel hedging, (we have 16% at current low prices--which amounts to huge savings over the last 4 quarters) and the fleet flexibility to change things around to meet actual needs. We also are parking hundreds of 50 seat RJs, which I know makes you nervous. Big time savings. Our plan has not changed overall---hub and spokes and worldwide coverage. Southwest has added INTL codeshares they won't fly (Volaris and Westjet), and now have added flights to cities they would have avoided in the past due to congestion. (LGA????) Let's see who is going out on a limb because they are now forced to since the playing field is leveling against them.....

BTW, can you get me a 6 piece McNugget with some Ranch Sauce?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[maxblast72]

ATL passengers will jump on a SWA plane in a N.Y. second and fly to pretty much anywhere and everywhere in the country they choose (SWA has a kick-ass route structure these days.) Everyone will jump at the chance to go and see Grandma on SWA for $58 each way and stick it to the big airline that has charged $780 for the same trip all these years.

Airtran already goes nonstop to 55 destinations in the United States, Mexico, and Puerto Rico out of Atlanta. Yeah, SWA could add places like El Paso, Amarillo, Salt Lake City, Boise and a few other places out west that are not served by Airtran. But for that $58 ticket, Airtran will make a larger profit as our CASM is lower. Airtran is larger in ATL (250 departure a day) than SWA is in PHX, HOU, MDW, LAS, or BWI (no more than 225 departure a day). Only way SWA is going to have a hub in ATL is if they buy Airtran.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Southwest NEVER had bad quarters, and look how they are doing now? Not good news from them either. Playing field is becoming equal---not good news for ANY LCC.

So GL - how equal are things really? Common, I know you're all into the always positive for Mother D spin and all, and I respect that, but were you out on extended sick leave from eating bad food at one of those swinging 5 star African resorts when 4Q financials came out?

Delta - 1.4B 4Q loss, 340 M operating loss or 50c/share, much worse than analyst forecast of 34c/share.

SWA - 56M 4Q loss, 61M operating profit or 8c/share, beating analyst forecast or 5c/share.

I'm those facts are quite easily reformatted in the GL spin machine though ...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

read the 8K. You will see a lot different picture.
6.1 BILLION in unrestricted cash to start with.

We will also post horrible numbers next week. Look at the 8K once again.

About 1.221. billion pre tax profit for 09. Base on only a 10% drop in revenue.

 

[johnsonrod]

SWA doesn't have the same advantage nowadays without the fuel hedge. The service is average with no IFE unlike most other airlines. SWA will always be a competitive threat but not to the same degree as before. I agree that limited gate access and significant incumbant competition (i.e., NWA/DAL at MSP and DTW with their current pax feed) will limit some of its growth at their new destinations.

 

[DTW320]

I'm not proud of the pay raise, but you guys got a big bump. Let me talk real slow for you, about 0 guys at DAL have what you are talking about (1785 a month).

A NWA 320CA now can be 7ER CA. At NWA that was all he could hold.

So if really think about it ya'll got more. So stop your bitching.

So, Zero guys at Delta are getting the PBGC guarantee? PBGC guarantee is how much? And what % of NWA pilots have a frozen pension that exceeds the PBGC guarantee? And you got Nothing from DAL for terminating the A-Plan?

Maybe you're Still not talkin slow enough.

 

[General Lee]

So GL - how equal are things really? Common, I know you're all into the always positive for Mother D spin and all, and I respect that, but were you out on extended sick leave from eating bad food at one of those swinging 5 star African resorts when 4Q financials came out?

Delta - 1.4B 4Q loss, 340 M operating loss or 50c/share, much worse than analyst forecast of 34c/share.

SWA - 56M 4Q loss, 61M operating profit or 8c/share, beating analyst forecast or 5c/share.

I'm those facts are quite easily reformatted in the GL spin machine though ...

Ben,

Don't tell me you haven't seen a major shift in profitability here...... Your hedge advantage--GONE. Your FIXED COSTS--(employee costs, airplane costs etc) UP. Your consequtive quarterly profits---GONE. Come on now. Yes, when we lose money over here it generally is a LARGER number than yours, but then again we have a lot more money in the bank than you do. I hope we don't lose it all, but we do have costs with merging airlines (you may have those same costs someday too), and we also had a bad experience with some hedges (like you). Our hedge problem goes away as this year progresses, but your whole deal was to have the hedge advantage and prey on other airlines with lower cost tickets when we were struggling with higher fuel. That advantage is GONE. Time for a rematch.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

So, Zero guys at Delta are getting the PBGC guarantee? PBGC guarantee is how much? And what % of NWA pilots have a frozen pension that exceeds the PBGC guarantee? And you got Nothing from DAL for terminating the A-Plan?

Maybe you're Still not talkin slow enough.

Yes, we did get compensated for the loss of our plan, and it was TAXED. What wasn't put into the 06 and 07 401K kettle was taxed at a high rate. And what about those 401Ks? How are they doing these days? I think we would rather of had a monthly check--even a frozen pension. But, we did save our work rules, which you have now too. So, to sum it up, you still have some sort of frozen pension, our work rules, and higher pay. You're welcome. Welcome to LGA.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[DTW320]

Yes, we did get compensated for the loss of our plan, and it was TAXED. What wasn't put into the 06 and 07 401K kettle was taxed at a high rate. And what about those 401Ks? How are they doing these days? I think we would rather of had a monthly check--even a frozen pension. But, we did save our work rules, which you have now too. So, to sum it up, you still have some sort of frozen pension, our work rules, and higher pay. You're welcome. Welcome to LGA.

Bye Bye---General Lee

Ahhh.....So..it's NOT true that ZERO Dal guys have at least $1785 month....but then again, YOU did not answer the question about PGBC guarantee did you? You're talking about the pension note.

BTW, my 401k has been in cash for some time now and is doing just fine through all of this. If yours is not, whose fault is that?

Oh, and I would thank you for the work rules if I had them, such as the trip rig that was never intended to be BP5, AND if you had anything to do with me getting them. Since I don't, and you didn't.....

Anyway, happy to be here, even though I'm 10 pounds heavier after picking up my Bag-O-Bling for the Russian zoot suit today.

LGA? Don't get it.

 

[crj567]

read the 8K. You will see a lot different picture.
6.1 BILLION in unrestricted cash to start with.

We will also post horrible numbers next week. Look at the 8K once again.

About 1.221. billion pre tax profit for 09. Base on only a 10% drop in revenue.

Pre-Tax Profit?

Ever take an accounting class? If so, then you know that pre-tax means nothing. Besides, when DAL misses that estimate, the stock will be punished. You can already pick up a share for less than a happy meal. It is gonna look like a steal when it costs less than a gumball. What was the IPO price $20 or so? Happy days-indeed.

What do you really think the 2009 bottom line will look like? Do you think it will beat SWA? If so, you need to seek counseling.

Consider how those INTL routes (which DAL doubled-down on) are tanking very hard right now... There is no way those routes will contribute anything to the bottom line until this recession is over (which will be well after the next election.) Now-who do you think will do worse? SWA or DAL?

Heavy exposure to INTL means heavy expense in exchange for expectations of heavy loads and the associated revenue. At least SWA was smart enough to extend their exposure only to a code-share. Both Europe and Asia are cratering in epic manner, domestic looks bad, but certainly better than INTL now.

There is no question INTL is far more expensive than domestic-a year or two ago, it looked more profitable, but that ain't so anymore.

-Keep whisting past the graveyard..... Check out that canary in the coal mine-looks a little feeble, don't he? Those rose-colored glasses you are sharing with the General will not change the facts.

-Fact is, you are now run by morons-they put too many eggs in the INTL basket, and now they think they can gain ground by destroying AirTran.
-Fact is, these fools on DAL's board are taking a baseball bat to a hornet's nest, and every single one of them on the board will be set for life.
-Fact is every employee at DAL better be worried, because SWA is coming, and no matter what you misinterpret some 8-K to read, SWA will come in and wax your ass.

 

[General Lee]

Ahhh.....So..it's NOT true that ZERO Dal guys have at least $1785 month....but then again, YOU did not answer the question about PGBC guarantee did you? You're talking about the pension note.

BTW, my 401k has been in cash for some time now and is doing just fine through all of this. If yours is not, whose fault is that?

Oh, and I would thank you for the work rules if I had them, such as the trip rig that was never intended to be BP5, AND if you had anything to do with me getting them. Since I don't, and you didn't.....

Anyway, happy to be here, even though I'm 10 pounds heavier after picking up my Bag-O-Bling for the Russian zoot suit today.]



Sounds like you are the next KRAMER from CNBC. Good for you then. I am still in it for the "long term" as Obama says, so it hopefully will all equal out in the end. I did fill my 401K to the max for 06-08, so we'll see how that all pans out.

And, somehow you will be helped out by some of our work rules, like 2 Captains and 2 FOs for ULH flying. We are still getting more widebodies, so you might see that benefit someday.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Pre-Tax Profit?

Ever take an accounting class? If so, then you know that pre-tax means nothing. Besides, when DAL misses that estimate, the stock will be punished. You can already pick up a share for less than a happy meal. It is gonna look like a steal when it costs less than a gumball. What was the IPO price $20 or so? Happy days-indeed.

What do you really think the 2009 bottom line will look like? Do you think it will beat SWA? If so, you need to seek counseling.

Consider how those INTL routes (which DAL doubled-down on) are tanking very hard right now... There is no way those routes will contribute anything to the bottom line until this recession is over (which will be well after the next election.) Now-who do you think will do worse? SWA or DAL?

Heavy exposure to INTL means heavy expense in exchange for expectations of heavy loads and the associated revenue. At least SWA was smart enough to extend their exposure only to a code-share. Both Europe and Asia are cratering in epic manner, domestic looks bad, but certainly better than INTL now.

There is no question INTL is far more expensive than domestic-a year or two ago, it looked more profitable, but that ain't so anymore.

-Keep whisting past the graveyard..... Check out that canary in the coal mine-looks a little feeble, don't he? Those rose-colored glasses you are sharing with the General will not change the facts.

-Fact is, you are now run by morons-they put too many eggs in the INTL basket, and now they think they can gain ground by destroying AirTran.
-Fact is, these fools on DAL's board are taking a baseball bat to a hornet's nest, and every single one of them on the board will be set for life.
-Fact is every employee at DAL better be worried, because SWA is coming, and no matter what you misinterpret some 8-K to read, SWA will come in and wax your ass.

With all of this terrible news coming up, how does it make you feel to work for one of our feeders? You must be pooping your pants daily....

As far as Southwest coming, well, there aint a lot of room to expand at ATL. Even if we gave up NWA's old gates at ATL, there wouldn't be much room to compete. Sure, they could add some flights, but with their lack of a fuel hedge advantage, they would probably charge about the same fares. Now if they add nonstops to Lubbock, Midland, and Harlingen, well, we would lose on those routes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[crj567]

With all of this terrible news coming up, how does it make you feel to work for one of our feeders? You must be pooping your pants daily....

As far as Southwest coming, well, there aint a lot of room to expand at ATL. Even if we gave up NWA's old gates at ATL, there wouldn't be much room to compete. Sure, they could add some flights, but with their lack of a fuel hedge advantage, they would probably charge about the same fares. Now if they add nonstops to Lubbock, Midland, and Harlingen, well, we would lose on those routes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I suffer no illusions on this one, General... I can find another job, but you should be very concerned about your own well-being.... I have never defined my self worth by my job, and honestly, I think that is one of the saddest things anyone could ever do.

For someone who gets up and toots his own horn all day long and attempts to denegrate everyone and everything that is not Delta Air Lines-you should really prepare.

This is gonna be a tough ride for everyone in an airplane. Obama will wreck our economy, and the survivors will be the ones with the most staying power. In this game, staying power is known as money-and SWA has a lot. DAL does not, especially as fast as those famous INTL routes are burning through the cash.

You better get some perspective, General. Without that big plane and penguin suit, you are going to be in for one hell of an adjustment.

-Don't say you weren't warned, oh master of the fleet.

 

[General Lee]

I suffer no illusions on this one, General... I can find another job, but you should be very concerned about your own well-being.... I have never defined my self worth by my job, and honestly, I think that is one of the saddest things anyone could ever do.

For someone who gets up and toots his own horn all day long and attempts to denegrate everyone and everything that is not Delta Air Lines-you should really prepare.

This is gonna be a tough ride for everyone in an airplane. Obama will wreck our economy, and the survivors will be the ones with the most staying power. In this game, staying power is known as money-and SWA has a lot. DAL does not, especially as fast as those famous INTL routes are burning through the cash.

You better get some perspective, General. Without that big plane and penguin suit, you are going to be in for one hell of an adjustment.

-Don't say you weren't warned, oh master of the fleet.

Sure you can find another job, McD's is around the corner for you. You may not think a flying job defines you, but being a fry cook will "land you the ladies..."

You really think Delta is doomed? Wait, Obama is dooming us? Thanks Rush Limbaugh. This slump in the economy started on Bush's watch. Are you nuts? (sorry, let me retract that since we all already know the answer) I am not saying Delta could NEVER go away, but I think we are in better shape and have more money on hand than anyone else. We have the best routes with the most variety, a vast fleet with different types of planes for flexibility, and we have both been through Chap 11 recently, cleaning out the cobb webs and at least one airline's pilot pension, which unfortunately was lost during the BK process. All of that is cleaned out, along with expensive leases, expensive gates, and other one time charges. I think most anal-cysts out there think you are wrong, and think DL and CAL are probably the best positioned Legacies, with Southwest being the best positioned LCC. Those are two different things, with different missions, and if you think INTL traffic will slump for decades (and domestic only will not??), then you are wrong. Oh wait, Southwest has a HUGE codeshare with Westjet (they go to less than 10 common cities with Southwest) and Volaris (a newcomer to the Mexican LCCs, and still doesn't even go to a US city). Wow, we better hurry up and change all of our plans.....

You need to realize that you are out matched here. Your proficies of the future are way out of line with what almost everyone else "in the business" thinks. Recent stock slumps are common at all the airlines, not just DL, and just take a look at the cargo carriers. Well wait a minute, how about you raise the fries out of the vat of oil first.....and say hi to Sean Hanity for me too...


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I am just posting the published facts.

I am glad to see that we will have a profitable year. Our loads are better than expected. A few more services are going to be by a fee now, so we will be generating more revenue. That is all good news to us Supreme Sub Commanders.

 

[crj567]

I am just posting the published facts.

I am glad to see that we will have a profitable year. Our loads are better than expected. A few more services are going to be by a fee now, so we will be generating more revenue. That is all good news to us Supreme Sub Commanders.

You still think that a pre-tax profit is a real profit? How much do you think a company that size might pay in taxes?

Dang.....

-That sub might have a bit bigger leak than you think.