How much to overhaul a PT6-21A?

dhc8fo

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Anyone got a rough idea about what the overhaul cost for a PT6-21A is? I have ZERO idea what this amount could be, but yes, I bet it is pretty high. 70K?

Also, if you found a plane you liked but pretty much you had to overhaul one of the engines upon purchase, would that turn you off or does the lower price make it worth it to you?
 

prpjt

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125K to 150K for a -21 o'haul. Price swing depends on shop and condition. No need to waive off one that needs an engine. When looking at twin turbines, price the airframes and engines seperately. Good luck.
 

TwinTails

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Depends on what needs to be done. The power turbine alone is 50 grand. If sending it to a shop without having any connections it could be very very expensive. Over 100 grand is not hard to do.
 

dhc8fo

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prpjt said:
When looking at twin turbines, price the airframes and engines seperately. Good luck.
Got any guideline for how to do this?
 

Diesel

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Don't let anyone talk you to the MORE program. It's a shill game which is just a bad idea. Plus they still have to do a hot section to put it on the program and you might not go that far after starting the program.

Are you doing a conversion? We had this problem with our old king air and found that converting the engines was cheaper than overhauling them.
 

prpjt

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Often planes are priced at midtime engine and average airframe time. I'm just saying deduct for a high time engine and add for the low one.

Blue Book and Vref both make their valuations on midlife engines (fresh hot sections) and average airframe time for year model. If one engine is run out and one engine is very low time you would add and deduct accordingly. Then you would add/ded for the airframe.

For a -21 I think the per hour price adjustment is about 55/hour per engine. So if the engine is 1100 past hot section, deduct at least 60,500 from the book price because of that engine time. Then do the other engine.
Now take how far the airframe total time is from average for that year model. Add/deduct accordingly.

Typically I would deduct thee entire o'haul cost from any engine that is within 300 hours of TBO. The reaon being that no one wants to buy a plane and have to put it out of service in the near future. There has to be a discount for this, just as a fresh ready to go aircraft may bring above book. Logbook history can add a lot to a price but engine times are not very negotiable. They cost X $ to overhaul and you can run them for X hours. The dollars tick off with each hour flown.

The biggest factor though is how hot the market is for that particular type plane and how bad the owner wants to sell. If the owner is going to get a loan for the plane, many banks are very reluctant to let you overpay.
 

prpjt

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I'll second Diesel's comments on the MORE game. Just don't do it. In the end it can be very expensive and you are asking for trouble.

For about 250K more than ohauls you can get brand new engines and props with a conversion. May sound like a lot but you have also added 500k in value to the plane. You'll make up the 200K when you go to sell in 5 years. You'll be advertising a plane with 1200 hour first run engines rather than 4800 hour overhauled engines.

Also be aware that overhauling engines is a crapshoot. 125K for an overhaul would be for an engine that was straightforward. I have seen a $175,000 -42 overhaul turn into a $360,000 invoice due to corrosion in the accessory case.
 
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dhc8fo

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Man, I appreciate all of the responses. I had no idea it was so confusing@! Do you guys recommend a book or website that explains some of this? I haven't had any luck on my own searching, but maybe I am not searching with the right parameters. I also need to learn what this whole "Phase IV and V completed or due blah blah" thing is.....so many details. UGH....
 

prpjt

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Below is a link to the Blue Book sight. It kind of explains the valuation process. If you are looking to buy it's well worth spending $150 for a current CD.

The plane can be on any of a number of maint. programs. You need to do at least one Phase every 200 hours, and 4 phases must have been completed in the last 24 months.

Depending on the airframe/engine combo you also need to look at time limited items such as fuel nozzles, starter generator ohauls, flammable liquids hoses replacement and gear ohauls.

What kind of aircraft are you looking at? There are also several things that could be "gotchas" on the airframe and avionics end.

http://www.aircraftbluebook.com/example3.html
 

dhc8fo

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Good lord, I feel so over my head. I am trying to get together info for a group of businesses who want to buy into a King Air 90. I will be one of the owners (also the pilot and manager of the plane).

Who would you normally consult for help with these kinds of things? A broker? Seems like he wouldn't be the guy to go to since he wants your money.

Thanks for the link...I will check it out.
 

prpjt

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You can get a broker to aquire the aircraft for you. Do it on a flat fee basis and not percentage for obvious reasons.

Check your PM's. Give me a call if you have more questions. I'm not a broker.
 
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