How much debt....

[Kingair1181]

Posted this on the general board but figured it relate better over here to most pilots.....

How much debt did you have when you finished flight school and how old were you when you finished? Been talking to a few friends lately and it seems the older ones (30ish and up) saved up before starting their flight training and have far less debt then say the average 25 year old.

What also amazed me were how many out there had over 50,000 or even 70,000 in debt between credit cards, flight school loans and college. I'm 25 and have around 30,000 but it seems a lot of guys are far worse off then I am and I haven't met many out there who are around my age and better off. Finished up flight school a little over a year ago and most months I just pay the minimum payment for the loan.

Just wondering if most are in a similiar situation as I am or worse off or better. My parents covered the cost of my private pilot license but I was on my own after that so I didn't have much help.

I realize it's all paying your dues and learning to fly isn't cheap but just doesn't seem very many people try to be frugal when they were training or blew it somehow....

 

[stearnst]

Hmm...looks like I'm sitting at $118,000 owed to one bank or another, all student loans. The nice thing about being so ridiculously in debt (tongue in cheek) is that the mortgage I just got a month ago doesn't seem so bad!

 

[flyby]

Hmm...looks like I'm sitting at $118,000 owed to one bank or another, all student loans. The nice thing about being so ridiculously in debt (tongue in cheek) is that the mortgage I just got a month ago doesn't seem so bad!

118k? If I had that much in debt I'd like to think I was going to work to give some girl a larger chest, not driving an airplane around.

 

[kingairyahoo]

i was 27 when i got my commercial and had zero debt thanks to the GI Bill...you guys are nuts uke:

 

[Stifler's Mom]

How much debt? I'm afraid to look.

 

[F16fixer]

$20,000 in debt, free 4-year degree from ERAU thanks to the Air Force. Two junky cars and the shirt on my back is about all I own. I know this career takes time, but I'm ready to get moving. Thanks for everyone who posted their large debts. It makes me feel a little better.

 

[jacksjj]

67 Gs. About 600 a month.

The next 30 years.....

 

[Moustache]

30/none, zero, zip...................
FBOs and line jobs all the way through.

 

[TNHillbilly]

I got about 30,000, but its just money right? they print it every day. plus my girlfriend is a nurse...find one guys it helps.

 

[lowlycfi]

$0 in debt. Last rating I got was my MEI about two years ago. I was 33 then. Got my private when I was 20 (C-150s rented for $30/hr then). I've had a full time job since I was 17 and only added a rating or certificate when I had the money saved up. Paid my way through college as well (public university non aviation degree). I don't necessarily recommend talking as long as I did to get this career going, but not having any debt makes having a regional f/o job more bearable. I feel for you guys out there with the big debt.

 

[cosmotheassman]

House+Credit Cards+Car+Student Loan= $235,000. I WIN!!!

 

[ceo_of_the_sofa]

None.
I worked a full time job from Private to CFI, and then got my CFII and MEII while instructing. I had a couple of credit cards and an account at the flight school. This way, I always had about a month's and a half to pay off a month worth of flying (with different due dates on cards). This is one way to never need a loan and pay the bills.
Now, when I was instructing for a living (poor), I got a couple of zero percent credit cards and put my CFII and MEII on them. Paid it off within 12 months and that was that.
I think with some careful financial planning it could be done. Multiple zero percent credit cards are a gift, if you know how to use them. It takes some getting used to, but if you play it right and transfer balances without incurring fees, it's like getting a free loan. I did it and it worked out great.

As far as college, I didn't have that much to begin with because I went to an in-state school and lived thrifty. I defered it for a year or so after getting out and then just paid the whole thing soon after getting a 9 to 5 gig.

 

[LearLove]

Started in high school paid for 1/2 my pvt and all my instrument by turning wrenches in a bike shop and working line at the local flight school (flight school also gave 10% discount on rental to employees).

Went to college on the VA/Uncle Sam/Air Force/academic scholarships dime and joined a Navy flying club to finish my ratings while in school (jr/sr year). Engineering internship in college provided funds to do Comm, CFI and MEL.

Graduated debt free with all ratings and got 135 job. Paid $975 from charter salary (25,000/yr) to get ATP - went to commuters.

 

[Cheese Blood]

About 90 G's. Throw in the wife and its about 110. Let the good times roll.

peaceout

 

[CoolSidePillow]

later 30's and no debt from flying
Captain at a regional so wont make any substantial money either

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Zero debt. Got lucky and had some family money. Didnt get to start flying until after college though. And all my ratings came piece meal over a span of a few years.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

About 90 G's. Throw in the wife and its about 110. Let the good times roll.

peaceout

Where'd you pick up a wife for $20K?

 

[pgcfii2002]

I should have all of mine paid off by the end of the year, been working towards it for about 16 months now. Free degree from ERAU thanks to FEDEX.

I don't know how you guys accumulate so much, then try to live of a FO salary!! I chose to pay all mine off first by working multiple jobs, then I'll enter the CFI/135/regional job market.

 

[Cheese Blood]

It ain't so bad

As a thrd year FO I pull down just under 40 G's a year, you normally need only make it through the first year then the cash starts rollin' in!...unless you work for Mesa then, well you have to wait for upgrade....strike that you have to wait until you change to a different job or a respectable regional.

Funny thing is, unlike what seems to be the norm on this board I still enjoy my job and I have no regrets about the cash Uncle Sammy fronted me, just thankful for where I am.

peaceouttheblood

 

[av8er2]

I have flown with guys that are makine $20k to $30k and are up to $100k in debt from these fine schools that will tell you anything to get you in the door.


Wake up today you don't have to take the short cut and buy a job. Be a CFI fly a little freight and save a ton of $$. Guess what, you will probably be a better pilot because of it.

Very few of the pilots that pay the big $$ at these schools have the full tool chest of skills it takes to be a good regional FO. The ones that were a CFI and did other stuff like freight I think on average are the better FO's.

 

[tomcat]

Here we go again.

 

[wudalmstfly4fre]

Just graduated in May wih a B.S. of Science (Aviation Emphasis). Got my MEI ride next week and down just over $16,000. Got lucky, had a ton of scholarships.

 

[stearnst]

Hindsight is certainly 20/20 when it comes to things like the amount of money you spent to get your career started. Having over six figures in debt for school/flight costs alone, I could go on and on all night, mostly about the Army National Guard recruiter back in high school saying that 100% of tuition would be paid for up front, plus entering an industry with a rosier future back before 9/11, plus not anticipating what pay scales would be like right after school, but it all comes down to the fact that I was an ignorant high school senior that thought I had it all figured out and didn't do a whole lot of research before I got started, and by the time the real picture started coming into view the mindset was "Well, I've taken it this far, I might as well follow through." I love my job though, it's enough for my family and I to scrape by month-to-month...but if I had the chance to do it all over again, there would certainly be some changes made.

 

[GINCHBLASTER]

$51,000 in debt for my bachelors degree plus my flight training, private through CFII. Got my employer to help out, and gave a few handjobs to get my MEI. 5 different loans at about 10K each. 2 @ 9%, 2 @ 8.25%, and one locked in at 4.25%. Comes to $757/month. Working on getting the higher interest loans down to about 5% which will save me about $200/month. If it goes through I'll most likely keep paying the 757 and pay off the loan early.

 

[mslide]

I finished flight school at 25 years old with about $34k in loans, mostly due to flight training. I didn't have any loans for college. Going to a state university and living with my parents allowed me to do that. I was able to survive the FO years because I had a lot of money saved from my previous engineering career. I don't know how you guys with 100k+ debt and no savings do it.

 

[BoilerUP]

I'm at about $49k in student loans (out-of-state tuition & flight fees), with 10k of that on 15 years and the rest on 10 years. Could have been MUCH worse, but I thankfully got some help from the parents, Uncle Sam, and working 3 jobs while taking 19 credit hours in college. My payments are about $450/mo. When the wifey's kick in in 6 months, our total monthly student loan service will about just under $600/mo.

Student loans are the only debt we have right now, and the only thing I plan on adding to that mix is a mortgage in the next 6-12 months. We are living very simply, saving as much as practical while paying extra every month towards student loan principal. Loans will be done in 7 years or less.

Debt sucks, but I'd much rather be paying on student loans than a new car, boat, credit card, or other frivilous crap...

 

[xjlifer]

Over 200k....that includes the house, car...and hookers.

 

[V-1]

Debt sucks, but I'd much rather be paying on student loans than a new car, boat, credit card, or other frivilous crap...

Second that.

For myself:

Bought a 23-year-old car for $300. Drove it for seven years while building this career.

Private license funded in 1996 with every extra dollar I could save from a full-time job...eight month process...$4000...having no car payment really helped.

Graduated in 1999 with associates, CFI, CFII, Commercial single-engine...$35,000 total additional cost...financed about $30,000. Worked three jobs as well to get through school...no help from parents.

Multi & Multi engine instructor added for about $1500...some help with that from the flight school I worked 100 hours a week for.

Total cost, about $35,000.

$450/mo. in interest alone during the CFI days.

Caught a break and got a relatively high paying freight job that enabled me to wipe out $12,000 in debt in a year and a half. Spent four months building up savings for the next career move. Almost needed to use that savings to live during the four months following 9/11. Instead, I swallowed my pride and agreed to work line service for $8.00/hr. I knew I'd need that savings account when I went to work for a regional.

I could have moved on to the regionals after three months of flying freight back then...like most of my fellow coworkers did. I couldn't justify it financially at the time. I'd be a mid-seniority Captain at the airline I fly for now had I done that...instead I'm in the top 25% of First Officers (and probably will be at that level for some time). I also would have been dangerously close to requiring a bankruptcy filing had I taken that path...it wouldn't have taken much to push me over the edge. By this point in time, my now 27-year-old car sported a list of deferrals that included the following:

Power steering inop.
Heater blower motor inop (living in Northern Michigan at the time).
Brakes inop (not unlike flying an airplane...you just have to plan ahead).
Speedometer inop.
High gear inop. (accellerate to what "sounds like" about 70 m.p.h., then shift into neutral and coast for a half mile until traffic starts to back up behind you, then repeat the process).
Reverse gear inop. (try to find a slight incline to park on, it will make pushing the car backwards easier).
Radio inop.

I'll never know how things would have worked out had I ignored the ridiculous amount of debt I carried after leaving school, but I'm currently at about $15,000 in student loan debt locked in at around 3.5%...doesn't make any sense to pay it off early at that rate.

I don't earn much from flying (about $30,000 - $45,000 annually, depending on how hard I work), but I have time to run a successful business (unlike my employer's) that did over $2 million in sales last year. The money I earn from that endeavour exceeds what I would have earned in a Captain position at the regional airline where I work.

It's good to see a thread like this here. It'll be eye-opening for a few, discouraging for a few, and inspirational for a few as well.

 

[F16fixer]

???????

Ok, so what's the business?

 

[wmudriver]

$25000 in school+car loans. Was able to pay for most of my college education by living in my parents basement, scholarships, going to an in-state school and working. The flight fees racked up quickly, though.
Combined loanpayments (car and school) are around $350. Was able to handle that on first year F0 pay at XJ and still "live".