How many of you are......

[Flying Fever]

Like FlyingSkip, I left Aviation for about 10yrs. I was just a private airplane owner, flying for fun. Traded in my plane for two kids at the time. 10yrs later I left a job I was comfortable with money wise, but very much unhappy with other wise. I left that job not to get back into aviation at the time, just had all I could take. I was in my mid 40's, wife and two young kids and had about 1500 hrs, I was a weak IFR pilot, but did have my instrument, commercial and multi. Only 7 hrs multi, time it took to get it back in the 80's.

I stumbled onto a VFR parttime or temp flying job in my search for just any job, so I got current and worked it for a few months. For the next few years I was teased with this kind of work. When I wasn't flying, I worked just a level or two above flipping hamburgers. I was lucky in the fact I had some savings and was dipping into that. But that finally dried up and I was left with the fact I had to make more money or live cheaper. But I lucked into the right seat of jet and that is where I am now. I'm living from paycheck to paycheck, but I am flying and loving it.

I found out a few things in my wandering around for a flying job. 1st, you got to be willing to relocate. I wasn't willing to do that and passed on a lot of jobs. I hated to pack up my family and shake up their lives for me taking a low paying job somewhere. 2nd, it's not your age, but your responsiblites that are working against you. I had several operators tell me they liked me, would like to work me, but know it wouldn't work out becuase they weren't going to pay what it cost to keep up a family. Young guys aren't getting some of these jobs because they are young, they are getting them because they are living with mom and dad or 5 guys in an apartment and living on peanut butter and beer. 3rd, don't change anything you are doing till you see cash for a job. I can't tell you the number of jobs that I supposually had that were going to start next week, but next week never came. Talk is cheap! Just keep that in mind when you are being promised some near about too good to be true deal.

What I do think about age is that it can work in your favor in the 91 world. You sit one day at the airport and watch the pilots getting out of corporate planes. Most of the time there are two and usually one of them is sporting some grey hair. If you talk to the older guys some you'll find some have 10's of thousands of hours, been flying since he was 16 etc. But you also find a lot just have a few thousand hours. Most 91 operators I've found aren't so much about buying a jet to go fast or more convient, that is important, most 1st and foremost reason for buying a turbine plane is because it is safer and they want some one driving that they have confienence in making sound safe deicisons. Not taking anything away from the younger guys, but just an observation I've seen. Doesn't mean you'll get a job because you are old, but you could beat out a 20 some yr old hot pilot if you have the the confidence of the owners.

And probably the biggest factor if you are married is how your wife views all this. For me, my wife is the greatest. She never got on my case about floundering around job wise. She was always supportive and made the sacrafices it took money wise for us to live on what I was doing. She works also and that is a part of the puzzle that has helped me live my dream. She says she doesn't like my time from home, but she accepts it. And for me, I think it has made our relationship stronger. The good to leave and good to get back sort of thing.

My job, like everyone else's here can fly away tomorrow, but for today it's good.

Good luck 52Vincent.

 

[52Vincent]

Flying Skip and Flying Fever, your lives sound like amirror image of mine. I received my PPL in 80 and flew very little the following couple of years. 15 years later I find myself bitten by the bug again, I earned the remainder of my ratings through MEI and started instructing. Then Sept. 11 and the students dropped like flies, was lucky to fly 20 hours a month; couple that with my age, wife and child and checkered job history and life was delivering me a serious blow to the face. I went away for a year and a half with the blessing of my wife for some valuable time building. Iam back home now with 1300 additional hours in that time frame but with no job. Iam faced with the option of doing some more instructing and quite a bit, but it will all be single engine primary stuff, or possibly this other opportunity which Iam leaning toward. I had the option to go to OAK and fly for AMF, but financially could not have made it happen,especially after already being away for so long.
Anyway, thanks for all the great heart-felt responses. It truly is amazing to find that it really is a small world out there when so many people have so much in common.
Like Snakum said if anyone out there is looking for someone to give 110% and be a valuable team player and show the same determination and attitude and willing to take a chance; Let me know.

Thank you for the Shoulder everyone.
BTW: Congatrulations COEX and happy flying in your last 5 years.

52Vincent

 

[Snakum]

it's not your age, but your responsiblites that are working against you.

That's the whole deal really. I no longer have any real responsibilities, except to my present employer and to my Zen teacher - though I do take these seriously. And I have learned thru the lean years of IT (2001 - 2004) how to get by on very little. I can't work for $18K per year, but I can live on $25K or so. And since I don't have young kids, a wife, or a girlfriend, I can pick up and go anywhere if I have to.

The more I think about it ... the more I'm glad things worked out the way they did. I'd rather be me, having fulfilled my filial responsibilities early on and now be set financially such that I can live on Ramen, than to be 25 or 26 years old with a wife and a baby on the way, struggling to find a flying job that will allow me to at least feed my family.

I don't know how some of these young married guys do it ... my hat is certainly off to them.

Minh "Old Fart With Few Worries" Thong

 

[PGH STEEL]

YEA YEA YEA Days are long alot of time away from home but I cant think of anything else I'd rather be doing.

 

[350DRIVER]

thanks letters"(granted, the sim. could have gone better). Could my age be a factor? I have heard from other airline pilots that the regionals would prefer people in their 20 or 30's.

Age should not be viewed as a concern or issue here, keep plugging away and you will get your foot in the door. Many older than you have been hired and many more will continue to get hired throughout the industry. You will hear a few opinions tossed around this board where a "few" will attempt to blame age as a factor of not getting the job offer but this should not be considered the norm with regards to hiring practices. If this is what you want then nothing can stop you other than yourself.

 

[Ty Webb]

My "take" on it is a little different.

Aviation is a cyclical industry, as we can all attest to. I graduated a University flight school in 1990 with a whopping 600/50ME. I was looking for that first job right as the industry went into the last great aviation depression. Eventually, I gave up, and worked in the business world, and I am sure I sounded like some of the other posters in this string.

Then, along came 1996, and things started looking up. My friends who had been hired at "THE COMMUTERS" as they were called then, started upgrading, after maybe 3-4 years in the right seat of a B1900, and started talking about majors starting to interview again . . . . . I started getting current again, took my ATP written, and went to SimCom and got some multi-engine sim time. . . then I hit the bricks on a job search that took me as far as the British Virgin Islands. I came home to Tampa with three job offers, 2 were flying Part 135 VFR in piston twin, 1 was IFR in CE402's. I took that one, got a little right seat time in a corporate jet (by accident) and started pursuing that. A year later, I had a corporate jet Type Rating, and was making $45K . . . progressed to about $60k and got hired by a LCC. Three years later, I was a 737 CA.

So, I guess what I am trying to say is that it is doable, but a lot of it is in the timing, and if you want to do this, you need to guage the timing of the cycle to your advantage.

For example- you don't want to be (and can't afford to be) a regional FO for 5 years and the same goes for flying freight in piston twins. So you don't want to be getting in the door when there is no movement, like right now. But things will change, and you want to be ready. You say you want to stay corporate? Well, once the airlines start hiring again, many pilots will be either leaving for airlines, or returning, and jobs will be more plentiful, the progression quicker, and the pay better.

So, what I would do if I were you is make as much money as you can right now, outside of aviation. Keep your hand in it, by instructing part-time, if you can, and keep up with your contacts. Squirrel some money away. When things start moving again, get current, but I mean really current! None of this "the sim could have gone better" stuff. If necessary, spend some of the money you put away while working towards getting either your ATP (if you have the TT) or at some place that provides professional sim training in turbine aircraft- perhaps even get a CE-500 type-rating (you can do this and make it your ATP ride, too, if you have the 1500TT). That'll get you current, will give you a better idea of what is expected of you, and having a type-rating will show prospective employers that you can progress to the next level and may open the door to gettng some right-seat CE-500 contract work, which will introduce you to many people to build your contact base- people you meet at FBO's around the country, and in training, etc. That is how 80% of corporate jobs get filled.

Good luck. PM me if you have any questions.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I don't think age is a barrier. Most regionals aren't looking for lifelong employees. Senior pilots cost more than junior pilots. They are looking for people with a good attitude that can make it through training. I think they'd prefer you to work there for 3-5 years and move on so you can be replaced with someone cheaper.

 

[b757driver]

There are so many factors to take into consideration, you cannot generalize. Some companies prefer more mature candidates, others the opposite. COEX-FO (above) would beg to differ from your views DB!! You speak probably from your own experience and what MOST regionals go for but.....there is ALWAYS an exception, if you look hard enough.
Age should nt have any bearing but of course, we all know that sometimes it does despite those "we are an equal opportunity employer" quotes.
Go for what's right for you and do your homework. An interview is a TWO way street - even in hard times. You are there also to see if the job fits your needs etc.