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There's plenty of blame to go around.

However, the largest culprit is Barney Frank. HE owns the biggest share of the blame for all of this.
 
Pretty much. I am going to have to limit what my small business produces in way of income so that my total income does not reach the mark of me owing the government 40% of MY work. Nothing like government mandating a population of under-achievers.

Of course, this is in fact what they want. They need their families to have zero competition.

If your making that kinda doe than why are you flying for the airlines? Im sure you will still be comfortable with a 40percent cut!
 
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cloudkicker1981 said:
Im sure you will still be comfortable with a 40 percent cut!

You, like most people infatuated with wealth envy, just don't get how capitalism works (and works very well). It's all about motivation. People are not motivated to work their butts off just to see their results get confiscated. People in this position will just do the minimum, as they will always become resentful of the freeloaders.

There's an interesting story of the first Thanksgiving that you were probably never taught in your government school. The first year that the pilgrims spent in Massachusetts was extremely difficult. (By the way, the only reason they stopped in Mass. instead of continuing on to Virginia was they ran out of beer). Anyway, they worked together to grow crops, but they were dying of starvation. Eventually, Governor William Bradford decided to try something different. He gave each colonist a plot of land, and told them they could keep or even sell their excess. Immediately the colony began to prosper, and the result of that prosperity became what we celebrate as Thanksgiving. Why do we not celebrate the whole story, the true capitalist origin of this country?

As much as it seems unfair, and socialism actually sounds much better, you can't fight basic human nature, and you can't argue with results.
 
How exactly has Obama killed the market? Did he sell off all the shares? More realisitic is the fact that the economy was was already shooting down before O got elected. This was the result of rampant greed and un-regulated speculation in the marketplace.

When the market goes down, sellers sell off and in situations where the greed resulted in colssal business failures, it only aggrevated the market further. This sent the average down. This is what has kept it down because the reality has been shown that the 10000 and 14000 pt markets were largely that high because massive amounts of greed and rampant speculation.

Will the market get better, yes. But don't act like it has to get as high as it was to say it's better. Better will actual see the market adjust and grow slower better reflecting the return to traditional pricinpales vs. the buy, buy, buy method of rampant speculators and un-educated day traders looking to get rich quick without consideration that their actions will lead to what we are currently experiencing.

Well first of all the Dow is an indicator of the economy's future. Obama's policies are scaring the he!! out of the market and since his nomination the market has lost 20% of its value. And what the heck (Andy Griffith moment) is soooo wrong with getting rich?
We are currently experiencing a Barney Frank(and a lot of other dems) screw up.... encouraging Government created business(fanie/Fredie mac) to give money to anyone who wanted a house. Hence you get trickle UP FUBAR!!!!
 
There's plenty of blame to go around.

However, the largest culprit is Barney Frank. HE owns the biggest share of the blame for all of this.

The biggest share of the blame is the people, not any single person. Oil was also a major factor which put the dagger. You can't keep buying and selling into oblivion, pretty soon you'll get what is happening now, a near depression where nothing is worth anything anymore. People were buying houses they couldn't afford, people were doing part time real estate as if they were selling candy. People were borrowing like crazy. It's probably going to get worse this year. Now many people are saying that this is going to chance not only the U.S but the whole world economy forever. I seriously doubt it's going to be good for the airlines at least for the next few years.
 
You, like most people infatuated with wealth envy, just don't get how capitalism works (and works very well). It's all about motivation. People are not motivated to work their butts off just to see their results get confiscated. People in this position will just do the minimum, as they will always become resentful of the freeloaders.

There's an interesting story of the first Thanksgiving that you were probably never taught in your government school. The first year that the pilgrims spent in Massachusetts was extremely difficult. (By the way, the only reason they stopped in Mass. instead of continuing on to Virginia was they ran out of beer). Anyway, they worked together to grow crops, but they were dying of starvation. Eventually, Governor William Bradford decided to try something different. He gave each colonist a plot of land, and told them they could keep or even sell their excess. Immediately the colony began to prosper, and the result of that prosperity became what we celebrate as Thanksgiving. Why do we not celebrate the whole story, the true capitalist origin of this country?

As much as it seems unfair, and socialism actually sounds much better, you can't fight basic human nature, and you can't argue with results.

Greed and money will not get you far once your 6ft under. Its easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get to heaven. But obviously you are like most people that like to inturpet the rules about sharing to fit your own way of turning a blind eye to people who are without.

Sorry my mommy and daddy couldnt send me to boarding school but they did instill some pretty good morals and values into me. I think I do ok and uncle sam got his share of my money this year too but I still believe you should be thankful for what you have and help thoughs without. Not envious of those with money at all....pretty happy with what I got.
 
Greed and money will not get you far once your 6ft under. Its easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get to heaven. But obviously you are like most people that like to inturpet the rules about sharing to fit your own way of turning a blind eye to people who are without.

Sorry my mommy and daddy couldnt send me to boarding school but they did instill some pretty good morals and values into me. I think I do ok and uncle sam got his share of my money this year too but I still believe you should be thankful for what you have and help thoughs without. Not envious of those with money at all....pretty happy with what I got.


"blind eye to people who are without"? do explain?

And...."be the ball and throw yourself!!"
 
Greed and money will not get you far once your 6ft under. Its easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get to heaven. But obviously you are like most people that like to inturpet the rules about sharing to fit your own way of turning a blind eye to people who are without.

Are you serious? WOW.
 
Greed and money will not get you far once your 6ft under. Its easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get to heaven. But obviously you are like most people that like to inturpet the rules about sharing to fit your own way of turning a blind eye to people who are without.

Sorry my mommy and daddy couldnt send me to boarding school but they did instill some pretty good morals and values into me. I think I do ok and uncle sam got his share of my money this year too but I still believe you should be thankful for what you have and help thoughs without. Not envious of those with money at all....pretty happy with what I got.
So I guess if you want to go to heaven you should make sure that you, cloudkicker, never get rich so you don't turn evil. That's fine by me. Live and let live. But where do you get these "rules about sharing"? I believe in voluntary charitable giving, but if it's not voluntary, it's not really sharing, is it? It's more like stealing. I thought you said you were raised with good moral values? I think the bible has something to say about stealing, but it doesn't say much about mandatory sharing.

Let me ask you this: would you rather live in the United States, one of the most prosperous countries in the world due to the capitalist nature of everyone looking out for their own best interests, or would you rather live in the old Soviet Union, or Cuba, where the "rules about sharing" are strictly enforced?
 
The biggest share of the blame is the people, not any single person. ... You can't keep buying and selling into oblivion, pretty soon you'll get what is happening now, a near depression where nothing is worth anything anymore. People were buying houses they couldn't afford, people were doing part time real estate as if they were selling candy. People were borrowing like crazy...
You, also, don't understand the real miracle that is free market capitalism. It regulates itself, it always finds equilibrium. If you leave the market alone, if you don't try to enact regulations that distort the free exchange of goods and services, then you do want people to "keep buying and selling into oblivion." It's called prosperity.

Please read the above article by Thomas Sowell. He makes it extremely clear that the primary problem was not so much people buying houses they couldn't afford (although, admittedly, that was a contributing factor), the real problem was the government interfering with lenders' ability to determine if a loan was a safe investment or not. Once Fannie and Freddie said, "don't worry about possibly losing money writing worthless mortgages, we'll just buy them from you," the stage was set for disaster. Remember, when the free market was in charge of lending and borrowing, it was one of the safest financial transactions on the planet.
 

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