How Do you get into Corporate???

[Noise]

I'm a considerably low time pilot in the grand scheme of things and would love to fly corporate. How do I get into it without going to the regionals to build the all mighty turbine multi time? I have about a 1000 total with around 50 multi (don't laugh). I just graduated college and am currently flight instructing. Any advice I can get would be really appreciated. How do you guys do it????

 

[Wiggums]

The key is knowing somebody.

If I were you I would go the regionals to get your time up to 2500TT, which are the mins for the fracs. Meanwhile you work on your networking. By the time you get to 2000-2500TT you need to know one person who will recommend you at CS, Flex, and NetJets, plus some people at local operators. If at 2500TT you cannot get a local job you get on with the fracs, get some types and build your experience. Eventually with enough networking you will get a good job, or you can make a carreer of flying for a fractional.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

When you say "corporate" I hope you do not mean only a Part 91 operator because that will seriously limit your possibilites and opportunities. I would look into Part 135 flying. I also just graduated college this past May and am currently flying for a charter operator. We fly about 40% part 91 and 60% Part 135.

With your time, you should be able to find a King Air job. Maybe even a Citation job. I've never tried it myself, but you can check out bizjetjobs.com Don't try to rush into something other than flight instructing either. The right job will come along for you. Patience is everything! You will probably even have a better chance getting a good corporate job as a flight instructor than a regional FO. I had to flight instruct for three months after I graduated before I found a good job in business aviation.

Best of Luck

 

[Noise]

Any Free Job Posting Sites

Is there any good sites to find job opportunites for charter ops or part 91 pilots? Preferably free sites.

 

[100 c.i.]

Is there any good sites to find job opportunites for charter ops or part 91 pilots? Preferably free sites.

Ive got 8000 hrs of which 5500 are in jets over 149500 Lbs. and cant even get an interview. any suggestions......

 

[Palmtree Pilot]

Get in line dude!! ....Unless U know somone where you live and that is where you want to stay.

NO..Seriously I wish I knew, but nothing seems to work out. Got some friends in places, but having to wait it out this long is about to run me out of the business.

GOOD LUCK!!!!


PtP

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

www.findapilot.com
www.corporatepilot.com

Is there any good sites to find job opportunites for charter ops or part 91 pilots? Preferably free sites.

 

[Palmtree Pilot]

Is there any good sites to find job opportunites for charter ops or part 91 pilots? Preferably free sites.

Continuely update my sh!t and keep applying on the site I am on,.... NOT Much to speak of!!!!

Very Frustrating! Considering I've flown corporate before 121; All I want to do is fly an airplane for someone who gives a sh!t about the people flying his/her a$$ all over the country or world! That's IT! And a few scheduled days off.

PtP

 

[FlyFlyFly]

I would expect to spend at least two to five years networking to land a really good corporate job. It is knowing the right people and having a good reputation. You will need to be creative and work hard to have the right people familiar with your work ethic, your reputation and your attitude that will get that brass ring corporate job. If you are not really committed to it, expect to be frustrated.

There has been a significant amount written about this subject in this forum, and a search will reveal a wealth of information.

 

[AA717driver]

Patience is everything! You will probably even have a better chance getting a good corporate job as a flight instructor than a regional FO. I had to flight instruct for three months after I graduated before I found a good job in business aviation.

Best of Luck

Not trying to flame but three months of instructing is not exactly "paying your dues". It's nothing. You got out quick--good for you!

But, if you are advising someone to be patient, try telling them they may have to instruct for a few years before landing that king air job.

Soapbox alert! I think part of the problem with people getting disillusioned these days is that they have the expectation of coming right out of Purdue (or [insert aviation university of your choice]) and jumping into a RJ right away, upgrading in 6 months, buying a 737 type and being at SWA before the class behind them has graduated.

Yeah, you might nail the first goal but that's it. You sit in the right seat of a CRJ for year after year until you are bitter and pissed off at the ripe old age of 25. Or you leave for greener pastures (which are never greener) and you are bitter and pissed off at the ripe old age of 25.

If you land that "career" job within 5-10 years of getting out of college, you are doing great. If it REALLY turns out to be your last job--you hit the jackpot. But for all you guys coming out of college expecting to hit the big time in a couple of years (and I mean REALLY deep down believing you will make it in that period of time) for your sake, you need to readjust your sights. You will probably make it but not if you get burnt out before you really get started.

Good luck.TC

P.S.--Go get a 135 job in an area that has a lot of good 91 activity and slug it out and network like a S.O.B. It'll happen.

 

[Mercury]

Soapbox alert! I think part of the problem with people getting disillusioned these days is that they have the expectation of coming right out of Purdue (or [insert aviation university of your choice]) and jumping into a RJ right away, upgrading in 6 months, buying a 737 type and being at SWA before the class behind them has graduated.

Yeah, you might nail the first goal but that's it. You sit in the right seat of a CRJ for year after year until you are bitter and pissed off at the ripe old age of 25. Or you leave for greener pastures (which are never greener) and you are bitter and pissed off at the ripe old age of 25.

Good luck.TC

Great post TC!!!
Once again you hit the nail square on the head. You also said a lot of things that I have been thinking and feeling for quite some time now.
:beer:

It seems that instant gratification is all that some care about these days instead of developing a strong work ethic and a solid base of experience. (And no, plunking down daddy's credit card for 100 hrs in a seminole does not qualify)
My advice to recent graduates, flight instruct first, it will teach you more in the first six months than you learned in all of flight training. Second, fly at least some 135 charter, chances are you will gain exp. in bigger, possibly turbine powered aircraft but you will also learn the "life lessons" and "people skills" that will be invaluable when you do land the ultimate part 91 gig.

Just my ounce of advice, do with it as you see fit and all the best in your career pursuits.

 

[SNAFU22]

Network, Network, Network. On this side of the industry who you know is really the biggest factor. Sure we can all fly airplanes, blah, blah and more blah. It boils down to how good of a reputation you made for yourself. When there's a pilot opening, odds are the company already have a candidate in mind. The job posts you see on the net are there to appease the legal types.

I agree that you should keep instructing. You'll have a better opportunity to get out their shake hands and let yourself be known. research a few flight departments within the area. Go out and meet the folks who operate the department. Any chump can fire off resumes by fax, it's the person who takes the time to get in their face "sort of speak" who will have a greater opportunity of getting the job. Tell them who you are, let your work ethic speak for itself. Believe me work hard sell hard and it will come. Maybe not as soon as you like, but it will happen.

Strive to succeed therefore you shall succeed!

 

[Munga]

Only thing I can say is he hit it right on the head. I for one instructed for 3 years (flying 1000hr/yr)before getting a 91/135 job that got me an interview at Reno which was cancelled by AA when they bought them, then I went to a regional the let me sit in the rt. seat for 6+ years. During which I got a pool side spot at TWA, until AA bought them and kicked all kiddies out of the pool and furloughed thousands. So I quit the regional last year so I could afford to pay rent in California and actually buy a car and now I fly a desk, dreaming of flying, but making a ton more money than I did at the ""regional."

Good luck to you. Network and don't do what I did and get stuck at a regional that won't grow and feels its employees are lower than whale sh*t!

 

[AA717driver]

Munga, that sucks! Just think, if you'd gotten hired at AA, you'd be senior to me! TC

 

[phishn@daves]

Continuely update my sh!t and keep applying on the site I am on,.... NOT Much to speak of!!!!

Very Frustrating! Considering I've flown corporate before 121; All I want to do is fly an airplane for someone who gives a sh!t about the people flying his/her a$$ all over the country or world! That's IT! And a few scheduled days off.

PtP

I don't think sleeping with the bosses wife was part of the deal, unless of course it's in your OPS SPECS, then indeed, you must obey the rules. Unfortunately, 69 was her age.:erm:

 

[100 c.i.]

Only thing I can say is he hit it right on the head. I for one instructed for 3 years (flying 1000hr/yr)before getting a 91/135 job that got me an interview at Reno which was cancelled by AA when they bought them, then I went to a regional the let me sit in the rt. seat for 6+ years. During which I got a pool side spot at TWA, until AA bought them and kicked all kiddies out of the pool and furloughed thousands. So I quit the regional last year so I could afford to pay rent in California and actually buy a car and now I fly a desk, dreaming of flying, but making a ton more money than I did at the ""regional."

Good luck to you. Network and don't do what I did and get stuck at a regional that won't grow and feels its employees are lower than whale sh*t!

Munga, See want happens when AA gets involved "career killers"....

 

[StaticWick]

Hi, it's a month after 9/11. I am 38 yrs old, 500 hrs and I need a job.

Yeah, you might nail the first goal but that's it. You sit in the right seat of a CRJ for year after year until you are bitter and pissed off at the ripe old age of 25. Or you leave for greener pastures (which are never greener) and you are bitter and pissed off at the ripe old age of 25.

P.S.--Go get a 135 job in an area that has a lot of good 91 activity and slug it out and network like a S.O.B. It'll happen.

Why did you stop at age 25 AA717driver? My dad retired out of B747 flying, 27 years w/ NWA (8 international and the rest domestic and 6 different type ratings) .....Bitter and pissed off.

These rules worked for me and the first two I know WILL work some of the unemployed high time pilots:

Rule #1
Don't placed a high expectation in whatever you fly or do...this leads to bitter and pissed off. Unfulfilled expectations are the worst kinds of let down. Get your facts straight and don't lie to yourself. Don't become a player hater. Aviation is small world. Good attitude is a must.

Rule #2
Network, Network, Network, Network.....locally, statewide, nationwide, call everyone on a regular basis.
Everyone is your friend at the airport. Opportunities will come from the least expected person/or place. I tell/told everyone in my network that this was the reason of the relationship. Lets face it: I don't care if you is ugly and talk funny. You fly an airplane and we got something in common! I'll talk airplanes all day long. Get to know people outside of the box. I don’t know of a single person out there that won’t go to a free lunch or dinner. I networked with CFI’s all the way to Presidents of corporations. As you go up the ladder bring that low time with…. The DO in my network gave me clues of the business and the direction it was going. I don’t know how many times he’d say, “Keep going, and keep flying.” Some guys I network in their own networks established relationships with people running their own business. One guy I know got a job in corporate flight department flying a Hawker because his student pilot started his own business.

Rule #3
Put yourself where you can network.
If you work at Lowe’s, you must spend equal time at the airport. I started an aircraft cleaning & detail business. 1) To keep myself at the airport and 2) feed the family after 9/11.

Rule #4
If you fly part 135 try to avoid freight.
Some of you guys love "boxes" that's ok. I am not flaming you, this is a list I made for myself that works for me. Boxes are great for some, just not my bag. But Part 135 is a great place to fly after flight instructing. I just know it can be literal hell flying boxes if not death. I known two guys killed themselves chasing hours in freight. The airplanes are just not the best shape, nor are the flight conditions. Several freight companies fly out of my old airport. Seriously, it reminded me of World War 2 missions...I personally saw two gear up landings without the rescue trucks waiting. A good friend of mine (in my network) bailed out of flaming Baron rolling down the runway after landing. BTW - heard the best altitude to punch a thunderstorm is 7000' with boxes ...but with people in the airplane it best to avoid them. Hence, I prefer people over boxes. When you reach that magic Part 135 number try flying scenic tours, aerial photo, traffic or pipe line gigs. These guys are putting in 10 and 12 hour per day of air time. My .02 on flying part 135.

Rule #5
You "reap what you sow".
Give within your network. In other words, if you are short a couple of hours of time and a buddy fits the profile it's better you let him know about the job opportunity and you wait. He gets the job and you don't he will NEVER forget you. This rule also works in line rule number one. This rule also helps with maintaining a good attitude if another pilot screws you over trying to position himself for employment. He will reap what he sows. I’ve seen this happen too much to not mention this rule. I had some guys jump over me for a freight job and a fast track to a flying career only to come back wanting to know if I know of a job because of being furloughed or flight department closing down.

Rule#6
Screw the employment websites that cost you money or team up on them.
Case in point: We posted a Saber pilot position at my old place of employment (company paid for it) on a Saturday night. On Monday when I got to work my boss is crying to take it off. We got over 300 email responses with résumé’s that ranged from qualifications you have up to the furloughed captain from American. Our CP just sat his desk all morning long and deleted them unless someone exactly fit the profile we posted.

"The Hangar" is a good place to network and find jobs for people local in your network. Finding that job requires rule#2 nine out of ten times.

Rule #7
It will take time.
Figure a month for every first digit of salary you are looking for before finding a job. Got a good solid network could take less depending on how big your network is. But a month is counted of looking for a job at average of two hours per day per week.

Rule # 8
Prepare yourself for the "thank you, but this position has been filled". Sometimes it could be a blessing in disguise more often than not. Never give up. See rule #1 …I find humor helps.

Rule# 9
It's not what you know...it's who you know. See rule#2. This applies to every job known to mankind. It's the only way, I can figure out how these guys with less experience, less flying time, and less qualified than I get the job or the are just full of bull$hit.

Maybe someone can add rule #10...I got to go and see the guy who got my present job. He needs help with his computer.

Later,
SW

 

[BoDEAN]

Anyone know any corportate gig's hiring in the St Louis, MO area by chance?

 

[AA717driver]

Bo--Man, STL has kind of been picked over. Most of the charter people won't hire ex-airline types. Most of the 91 departments won't hire anyone with a hope of being recalled to AA.

(Note to 135 and 91 operators in STL--You passed up a whole hell of a lot of quality people who were begging for an opportunity to NOT go back to AA because of your anti-airline paranoia. Get a little self-esteem, why dontcha...)

Sorry for the rant. Bo, I'd try Jet Corp. at SUS. They are 135 and fly lears. Things have been a little screwed up because they just got bought but hopefully they are getting their stuff together.

Good luck.TC

 

[maximizer]

The key is knowing somebody.

.....and then marrying the bosses daughter and fathering his gran-kids!