How do you calculate the number of pilots required?

[Tigers]

We use two crews per airplane.

 

[thatpilotguy]

I like the NBAA calculator, but there seems to be some holes in their calculations that I am going to have a hard time trying to explain.

1. How many corporate flight departments actually have pilots that work a 5 day work week?
2. How many corporate flight departments get holidays off?

In the second calculator that NBAA uses it shows number of hours a day available for duty. They list 8 hours. I'm guessing that they are getting these number from your standard 5 day 40 hour work week, but that doesn't seem to fit into any flight department that I have ever worked for.

I guess I'm a little stumped on how to explain the calculations. Any ideas? Does anyone know of any info out there that factors in number of RON's into these calculations? I would think that would factor in somehow.

 

[CE650SC]

NBAA Calculator

I think the NBAA Calculator is just a good tool to help you prove that you will need more guys than what your company will want to hire. That is based on simple things such as days available, days off, training, vacation, etc... There is no perfect way to calculate it other than to prove you will need more than just 2 pilots. Unfortunately all most companies care about is the bottom line (they call it a "budget") and you will need to prove to them that for SAFETY reasons and turnover - they need to staff the department properly!

Good luck, this is one of most difficult tasks you will have other than pay.

 

[thatpilotguy]

Thanks CE560SC, I agree that the NBAA Calculator can be a good tool. Currently we are operating with 3 pilots and are looking at a 400 hrs of flying per year. Not too bad. We didn't have any problem getting the big boss to sign off on needing a third guy, but what I am having problems with is showing him averages. He was under the impression that corporate pilots (part 91) flew more hours than we do. He thought the numbers where closer to 50 hrs month, and myself and the chief pilot are saying, no it's more like 25-35 hrs a month. In addition, he was looking for information on how the need for additional pilots is calculated.

You mentioned pay, that is exactly how this all started. Your exactly right that this is one of the hardest things that I have had to do. You almost want to say..."this is the way the industry works." But he wants justification and I can't dissagree with him, I don't think it's too much to ask, but it's really hard to prove/support.

 

[CRAZY LEGS]

At Gulfstream we subscribed to the KISS principle and simply recommended one and one-half pilots per seat to customers.

GV

Three pilots to crew a G-V ?

No thanks.

 

[pilotviolin]

We didn't have any problem getting the big boss to sign off on needing a third guy, but what I am having problems with is showing him averages. He was under the impression that corporate pilots (part 91) flew more hours than we do. He thought the numbers where closer to 50 hrs month, and myself and the chief pilot are saying, no it's more like 25-35 hrs a month. In addition, he was looking for information on how the need for additional pilots is calculated.

I think this is the whole problem with the industry. Bosses getting the wrong impression. And guess where he gets these impressions? From other Pilots!!

My worse enemy is other pilots filling the boss full of $h!t. Let me share a couple.

Someone told my boss that they were lucky to get less than 700 hrs a year in a 2 pilot, 1 plane operation. I will just say it was a f-2000 owned by newspaper mogul. How do I dare ask for days off when we only flew 450 hrs a year?

Oh and the worst are the fractional guys. One netjetter told my boss that if he owned a CE-750 that he wouldn't even need to pay for co-pilots because there are so many people wanting time in the 10. Although this has happened for every plane we have owned. Drives me crazy.

The people I like in this industry (well most the time) are insurance, and contract pilots who aren't afraid to get tell us they need a ton of money to fly for us. I love it when the boss brings us pilot and tell us to get him on the jet when we have days off, and when we send the pilot forms to the insurance, they come back laughing because of the inexperiance. Sucks for the low time pilots, but good for us who have worked hard to get to be where we are.

 

[CE650SC]

We didn't have any problem getting the big boss to sign off on needing a third guy, but what I am having problems with is showing him averages. He was under the impression that corporate pilots (part 91) flew more hours than we do. He thought the numbers where closer to 50 hrs month

This is a huge problem in the field in which we work. Unfortunately most companies view our job as "easy" or "not demanding of much time". I think it is important that you set a tone early on in a department of helping them understand that they pay you for what you know, not how many hours you fly. When the Big Boss has open heart Surgery he does not question the cost based on the amount of time the surgeon spent cutting on him - all he values is the outcome - and he is more than willing to pay for success!
Your toughest job is to show him the value that you bring to him and to his company.

It is a funny thing - if you go ask any flight department that has experienced a crash and loss of life in its history - almost every time the company officials will say "we don't care what it costs, we don't ever want that to happen again!" They will tell the Chief Pilot or Director of Aviation "no matter what it takes, make sure we never experience this kind of loss again!" And thus many of the greatest flight departments in the country were born. If they want the best lawyer they don't search the yellow pages for the "cheapest" lawyer. If they want the best Doctor they don't ask for the one who has had the least amount of experience or most deaths. But when it comes to building an aviation department the boss goes out and buys a multi-million dollar piece of equipment and instantly starts searching for the cheapest way to crew it. Unfortunately we have become our own worst enemies and he has no problem finding pilots for substandard pay. Because after all "you're only flying 45 hours a month".

One thing we did that might help you is to create a form that documents everything you do for the department. (i.e. what time you show up for the flight, flight planning time, weight & balance prep, Jepp updates, maintenance, paper work of every kind, etc...) Document it and keep it up for every guy in the department so you can show that you do more than just fly 25 hours a month. But ultimately, he is not paying you for the amount of hours you fly, but for what you know and the skills you've acquired that he does not have.

Do it in an honest and kind way, but do it professionally just like a lawyer or doctor or architect would do. People pay them to do things that they can't do for themselves. Call NBAA and call some of the bigger Corporate flight departments and talk to their top guys. You will find they have years of insight and can help you greatly. Always keep safety and professionalism at the forefront and you will make headway!

Good luck

 

[pilotviolin]

amen!

 

[TXGold]

Great Post 650!

 

[thatpilotguy]

Your exactly right 560. In my previous position, with a previous employer I use to keep a log much as you suggested. I really haven't done that since I started here. I was under the impression that I really didn't need too, but I think your right and it now would be very valuable to have.

Thanks again for everyones input here. And great insight 560, it's obvious that you have been around the block a time or two.