How do you calculate the number of pilots required?

[thatpilotguy]

We are trying to analyze our projected need for flight department expansion and I'm having a hard time finding any information to support my beliefs.

What I am looking for is specific information on the average number of flight hours typically flown by a single aircraft, part 91 flight department. As well as the average number of flight hours flown per month for a part 91 pilot.

A few years ago I ran across a calculator that would provide this information, but I can't remember where I saw it.

Do any of you out there know where I can find information on this?

Thanks.

 

[maddogg]

NBAA Calculator

I think the calculator you are reffering to is on the NBAA website. We used it last year. I will try and find it and post the link.

Maddogg

 

[CE650SC]

Number of Pilots Required

www.nbaa.org/@@wA2oDQT6OwEN/basics/admin/calcpilots.htm

This is the site that contains the NBAA's suggestion for calculating pilots needed. Hope it helps.

 

[CE650SC]

Calculating the Number of Pilots Required
Calculation of Number of Pilots Based on Number of Days Pilot Is Needed
Each company could vary this calculation according to its own requirements. This sample calculation presumes a seven-day-a-week operation (the aircraft is available seven days a week) with a particular pilot available five days a week. Five pilots would be required if a five-day-a-week operation is used.

DESCRIPTION​

CALCULATION​

TOTALS​

Work days per pilot
52 weeks per year x 5 days per week

260​

Days not available

• Vacation: 15 days
• Holidays: 11 days
• Sick leave: 5 days
• Training and physical examination: 10 days

-41​

Subtotal of days not available
Total days available for duty
260 days – 41 days

219​

Number of crew seats
(if two per aircraft)
2 aircraft x 2 pilots per aircraft

4​

Number of operating days per year
7 days per week

365​

Number of flightcrew days per year
4 pilots x 365 days

1,460​

Number of pilots required (rounded up)
1,460 flightcrew days required/219 days available

7​

 

[thatpilotguy]

I thought I remembered a calculator that took into account RON's and stated something about average number of flight hours flown for typical flight departments nationally? Maybe I'm totally wrong. If I remember correctly there is another company that does flight department analyis.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

take the number your boss or management co says you need and double it.

 

[rice]

take the number your boss or management co says you need and double it.

OH SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Problem is when you come in with "your" number they typically divide that by 3.
Guess that explains my feeling of dread for the past two+ years.

 

[GVFlyer]

At Gulfstream we subscribed to the KISS principle and simply recommended one and one-half pilots per seat to customers.

GV

 

[G100driver]

take the number your boss or management co says you need and double it.

Classic!!!!!:beer:

 

[thatpilotguy]

All good answers. I'm sure there is good source information out there. Does anyone know if there is anything other than NBAA?

 

[Tigers]

We use two crews per airplane.

 

[thatpilotguy]

I like the NBAA calculator, but there seems to be some holes in their calculations that I am going to have a hard time trying to explain.

1. How many corporate flight departments actually have pilots that work a 5 day work week?
2. How many corporate flight departments get holidays off?

In the second calculator that NBAA uses it shows number of hours a day available for duty. They list 8 hours. I'm guessing that they are getting these number from your standard 5 day 40 hour work week, but that doesn't seem to fit into any flight department that I have ever worked for.

I guess I'm a little stumped on how to explain the calculations. Any ideas? Does anyone know of any info out there that factors in number of RON's into these calculations? I would think that would factor in somehow.

 

[CE650SC]

NBAA Calculator

I think the NBAA Calculator is just a good tool to help you prove that you will need more guys than what your company will want to hire. That is based on simple things such as days available, days off, training, vacation, etc... There is no perfect way to calculate it other than to prove you will need more than just 2 pilots. Unfortunately all most companies care about is the bottom line (they call it a "budget") and you will need to prove to them that for SAFETY reasons and turnover - they need to staff the department properly!

Good luck, this is one of most difficult tasks you will have other than pay.

 

[thatpilotguy]

Thanks CE560SC, I agree that the NBAA Calculator can be a good tool. Currently we are operating with 3 pilots and are looking at a 400 hrs of flying per year. Not too bad. We didn't have any problem getting the big boss to sign off on needing a third guy, but what I am having problems with is showing him averages. He was under the impression that corporate pilots (part 91) flew more hours than we do. He thought the numbers where closer to 50 hrs month, and myself and the chief pilot are saying, no it's more like 25-35 hrs a month. In addition, he was looking for information on how the need for additional pilots is calculated.

You mentioned pay, that is exactly how this all started. Your exactly right that this is one of the hardest things that I have had to do. You almost want to say..."this is the way the industry works." But he wants justification and I can't dissagree with him, I don't think it's too much to ask, but it's really hard to prove/support.

 

[CRAZY LEGS]

At Gulfstream we subscribed to the KISS principle and simply recommended one and one-half pilots per seat to customers.

GV

Three pilots to crew a G-V ?

No thanks.

 

[pilotviolin]

We didn't have any problem getting the big boss to sign off on needing a third guy, but what I am having problems with is showing him averages. He was under the impression that corporate pilots (part 91) flew more hours than we do. He thought the numbers where closer to 50 hrs month, and myself and the chief pilot are saying, no it's more like 25-35 hrs a month. In addition, he was looking for information on how the need for additional pilots is calculated.

I think this is the whole problem with the industry. Bosses getting the wrong impression. And guess where he gets these impressions? From other Pilots!!

My worse enemy is other pilots filling the boss full of $h!t. Let me share a couple.

Someone told my boss that they were lucky to get less than 700 hrs a year in a 2 pilot, 1 plane operation. I will just say it was a f-2000 owned by newspaper mogul. How do I dare ask for days off when we only flew 450 hrs a year?

Oh and the worst are the fractional guys. One netjetter told my boss that if he owned a CE-750 that he wouldn't even need to pay for co-pilots because there are so many people wanting time in the 10. Although this has happened for every plane we have owned. Drives me crazy.

The people I like in this industry (well most the time) are insurance, and contract pilots who aren't afraid to get tell us they need a ton of money to fly for us. I love it when the boss brings us pilot and tell us to get him on the jet when we have days off, and when we send the pilot forms to the insurance, they come back laughing because of the inexperiance. Sucks for the low time pilots, but good for us who have worked hard to get to be where we are.

 

[CE650SC]

We didn't have any problem getting the big boss to sign off on needing a third guy, but what I am having problems with is showing him averages. He was under the impression that corporate pilots (part 91) flew more hours than we do. He thought the numbers where closer to 50 hrs month

This is a huge problem in the field in which we work. Unfortunately most companies view our job as "easy" or "not demanding of much time". I think it is important that you set a tone early on in a department of helping them understand that they pay you for what you know, not how many hours you fly. When the Big Boss has open heart Surgery he does not question the cost based on the amount of time the surgeon spent cutting on him - all he values is the outcome - and he is more than willing to pay for success!
Your toughest job is to show him the value that you bring to him and to his company.

It is a funny thing - if you go ask any flight department that has experienced a crash and loss of life in its history - almost every time the company officials will say "we don't care what it costs, we don't ever want that to happen again!" They will tell the Chief Pilot or Director of Aviation "no matter what it takes, make sure we never experience this kind of loss again!" And thus many of the greatest flight departments in the country were born. If they want the best lawyer they don't search the yellow pages for the "cheapest" lawyer. If they want the best Doctor they don't ask for the one who has had the least amount of experience or most deaths. But when it comes to building an aviation department the boss goes out and buys a multi-million dollar piece of equipment and instantly starts searching for the cheapest way to crew it. Unfortunately we have become our own worst enemies and he has no problem finding pilots for substandard pay. Because after all "you're only flying 45 hours a month".

One thing we did that might help you is to create a form that documents everything you do for the department. (i.e. what time you show up for the flight, flight planning time, weight & balance prep, Jepp updates, maintenance, paper work of every kind, etc...) Document it and keep it up for every guy in the department so you can show that you do more than just fly 25 hours a month. But ultimately, he is not paying you for the amount of hours you fly, but for what you know and the skills you've acquired that he does not have.

Do it in an honest and kind way, but do it professionally just like a lawyer or doctor or architect would do. People pay them to do things that they can't do for themselves. Call NBAA and call some of the bigger Corporate flight departments and talk to their top guys. You will find they have years of insight and can help you greatly. Always keep safety and professionalism at the forefront and you will make headway!

Good luck

 

[pilotviolin]

amen!

 

[TXGold]

Great Post 650!

 

[thatpilotguy]

Your exactly right 560. In my previous position, with a previous employer I use to keep a log much as you suggested. I really haven't done that since I started here. I was under the impression that I really didn't need too, but I think your right and it now would be very valuable to have.

Thanks again for everyones input here. And great insight 560, it's obvious that you have been around the block a time or two.

 

[cvsfly]

We are a Corporate/ Part 135 company, 1 turbo-prop, 2 pilot operation (insurance requires 2 pilots) and average 25-30 hours. The duty sheet I keep for the FAA, I also note all duty time spent in the office, RONs, On-call days, and true scheduled rest days, etc. I have tried to argue for a third trained and checked pilot, but the owners don't see that as an option. We get contract pilots with advance notice with a pilot on time-off. If we don't have the back-up, we don't fly. We fly 300 hr a year, 400 would be ideal - at least as far as aircraft utilization. Over that you are on a busy schedule where you better hope you have no office obligations or aircraft cleaning chores (or Part 135 obligations). With 1 aircraft, you also need at least 90% dispatch reliability for hours approaching 500 hrs/yr (very little breaks and quick inspections)- which means an in-house maintenance facility.

 

[Publishers]

There are a ton of variables depending on the equipment and the nature of the flights. Longer range bigger equipment will result in higher number of flight hours but not necessarily more days.
We had Citations in corporate service and the aircraft was used mostly during the week for out and backs or an occassional overnight and back. Flew about 350 hours during that time and a crew of two was sufficient with a backup contract or one we borrowed if needed.
In charter, 2.5 seems to work well with a contract back up as we do about 400 to 450.

 

[CE650SC]

Our Worst Enemy

I think this is the whole problem with the industry. Bosses getting the wrong impression. And guess where he gets these impressions? From other Pilots!!

This is a great point - but let me take it a step further since we're on this topic.

While I agree with you that we are our own worst enemy in the kind of nonsense you mentioned other guys have said to your boss - the other thing that often happens in flight departments is hiring a third or fourth guy and not paying him well. Many times a department will get set up quickly under the advice of a salesman or a guy who has always wanted to be "Chief Pilot" and it is done incorrectly. Typically the pay is substandard, the benefits are lousy, and almost always they are not crewed properly. Everyone is excited because the company has a new airplane, the pilots have "titles" they've never had before, and the newness is exciting. Somewhere in the 6 to 12 month range when the excitement wears off, and the guys with "titles" get tired of flying every weekend and holiday - they go to the boss and say "we need another pilot to help with taking on some of the workload." Problem is that this was never put into the budget when purchasing the airplane, so now they have to get the number crunchers and HR involved. Once they get these guys involved - You ARE SCREWED! HR only knows how to do things one way and usually in a company, whose primary business is not aviation, they know nothing of the job that you are doing. The number crunchers will want you to hire someone for very little pay and they will find through their research that it is more than feasible. Now the current pilots are tired of being gone all of the time and never being able to plan anything with their families so even though they are hesitant they buy off on the idea of looking for someone with less time than them that will take the job for much less pay so he can get "Quality Time" in a jet. It is the beginning of the vicious cycle! The new guys gets hired in with all of this promise only to find out that he has no future in this department because the position he fills is only going to pay the small amount he is making and that is it. He quits, you begin interviewing, you hire, you train (for $30,000), he hits the wall because he becomes more qualified, he quits - well, you get the picture. After this happens a few times HR will say "What is the problem? Our training budget is out of the roof - we've got to do something." You will suggest hiring a well qualified pilot and paying him well. The number crunchers will say they can't afford it in the budget and HR will say that it will not work in their Corporate Structure. So they will come up with "Training Contracts". Your new guys will sign a one or two year contract so they can guarantee they will be there for awhile but the cycle will continue.

Meanwhile - the pilots that have been there all this time are not getting paid what they should and haven't had a raise in a while because the training budget is so high they are not in a place to fight for higher pay for the new hire. The guys that have been there for some time will end up quiting for a job that will pay them better and the new guy will step up to the "Chief Pilot" position for less pay than the last guy was making because he or she wants the title - YOU SEE WHERE THIS IS GOING?

All of this to say - even if you have to work a little harder because you are understaffed, don't fix the problem by paying someone nothing to help. Be professional and research as much as you can. There are all kinds of materials available now days and many consulting firms that will only look to help you in building a world class flight department. Try to stay away from salary surveys if you can because my experience has been that they only screw us all. Consider what your boss would pay a corporate lawyer or engineer to work and live in the same area you are living in. What is the value of his life and the multi-million dollar asset he owns. What would it cost the company if (God forbid) an accident happened. What is it worth to take every step to keep it from happening?

I hope you make headway in your endeavors and that it will turn into a premiere flight department!