How do I fly for a living when I can't afford it?

[A Squared]

Willfully writing a check for an actual, valuable product does not, in my book, constitute being scammed.

No, but willfully writing a check for a worthless product which has been fraudulently misrepresented does constitute being scammed, in anyone’s book.

Regarding your mathematical example . . . your math is so flawed, I can't even respond. I'd suggest going to www.BankRate.com, finding the 'additional payments' calculator, and working some of the math there. Your example shows a lack of understanding of compound interest, amortization, and the effect of additional principal payments.

Actually TOGA, I understand "compound interest, amortization, and the effect of additional principal payments" just fine, quite well in fact.

You're missing the point in referring me to using an "additional payments" calculator, your webpage says I can pay off a mortgage in 1/3 the time *without* increasing monthly payments, which is a lie, can't be done.

Actual quote:

The average Money Merge Account customer will pay their mortgage off 100%, in 1/2 to 1/3 the time, with little to no change to their day-to-day spending habits and without increasing their monthly mortgage payments.

Sure you can pay a mortgage off in 1/3 the time if you make additional payments. In fact I'm just about to close my own mortgage out in less than half the time, by making additional payments. Your website is selling a some magic you claim accomplishes that without additional payments.

So I say, put up or shut up. Take your magic program and compute up an example of how that's happens and post all the figures for everyone to see, what money goes where.

Here's the hypothetical: $200k Mortgage on a $250K house. 30 years at 5.5%, monthly payments are $1135. Just to keep it simple, let's say the HELOPC is at 5.5% too. so how us the series of 120 monthly (1/3 of 30 years) cash flows which pays off the mortgage and brings the HELOC to zero.

Shouldn’t be that hard, 120 sets of numbers which show money into and money out of the HELOC, balance of the HELOC and Mortgage, how much of each Mortgage payment is interest and principal.

You can't do it.

You won't even try, you'll slink off and hide under a rock like the snake oil salesman that you are.


Prove me wrong

 

[TOGA]

Oh, for crying out loud, man!! I thought you said you'd done some research on this. I thought you said you had some understanding of the math involved. OBVIOUSLY extra payments are made . . . they're just not made with your money. That's the whole idea! You borrow the bank's money (HELoC), pay the mortgage down with it, then pay the HELoC back, then borrow the bank's money again, then pay it back again, etc, etc . . . 'til all the debt's gone. You've leveraged cheap debt to pay off expensive debt. There's your freakin' "Snake Oil"! I'm sorry I didn't spell that out. Again, I thought you had the basic concept. If anyone wants to see your own numbers, or even theoretical ones, just fill out the analysis form on the website . . . no cost, no commitment. Ok, once and for all . . . "Snake Oil Salesman" signing off.

 

[avbug]

TOGA,

Are you familiar with the concept of the paragraph? Your writing reads like you're not. Thirty or forty sentences without a break is hard on the eyes...and leads one to gloss over whatever you're saying.

Then again, so does such non-sequitor concepts as...

Be careful your skepticism doesn't develop into full-blown cynicism. Do you trust that the mechanics have accomplished the work detailed in the logbook?

You're trying to draw a parallel between how one views your efforts to hawk your product, and the signatures in a logbook on an airplane? Are you suggesting that because one trusts a federally certificated mechanic performing a professional function, one should trust you selling your product? Are you familiar with the concept of apples and oranges?

The only way I make money is if an agent downline to me makes a sale AND I've made more total sales than they have. It costs $175 to become an agent. For this, you get all the marketing assistance you'll need, including the website you looked at. Is this MLM?

Yes, it is. It most definitely is multi level marketing. A Squared's comments are quite correct. He's challenged you to prove him incorrect...your response is to declare his lucid and logical analysis of what you're doing to be "sophmoric," and to provide nothing of substance but poorly written paragraphs and disjointed nonsensical sentence structure.

I have to say I regret posting here.

You should. It was inappropriate.

So, doubters, here's your free shot . . . flame away. You won't get an answer.

Looks like you blew that one...and hour and a half after you posted it. Anyone taking bets to see if you'll post again?

United First is not a financial institution, we sell software with coaching and customer service included.

Precisely. You're here selling something, not offering something, and what you're selling is a multi level marketed scheme where you get commissions off each person to whom yo sell...apparently in addition to the software and "coaching."

This is an aviation forum. This regards aviation exactly how??

 

[A Squared]

OBVIOUSLY extra payments are made . . .

Right, of course there are extra payments. That is precisely my point, that's how your "system" works. I understand that, you understand that. I understand perfectly well how your "system" "works"

But your website sells it as something that cuts the time in half or a third without extra payments. which is obviously, by your tacit admission, a lie.


Allow me for the *third* time to quote your website:

The average Money Merge Account customer will pay their mortgage off 100%, in 1/2 to 1/3 the time, with little to no change to their day-to-day spending habits and without increasing their monthly mortgage payments.

That is a lie. period. So my question is, why would anyone buy a $3500 product of questionable value from someone who lies about what it does?

Something that is sold through the use of lies and misrepresentations is snake oil, and that is precisely what is going on here.

OBVIOUSLY extra payments are made . . . they're just not made with your money.

Man, you just can't not lie, can you?

"not made with your money"?????

You borrow money, that's your money, you have it, and you *owe* it, plus interest. Yet you describe as if you just get free money from someone to pay down your mortgage.

You've leveraged cheap debt to pay off expensive debt.

Holy Crap!!!! you just just keep stacking lies on top of lies, don't you????

cheap debt to pay off expensive debt? you're paying off a *mortgage* with a *Home equitey line of credit*. All else being equal, a HELOC is more expensive debt than a mortgage. I did a little shopping this morning for mortgages and HELOC's. Here's what I found for my area, given the same credit rating: 30Yr fixed mortgage: about 5.5%. HELOC 7.5% Lowest was 7.2, most quotes were 7.7% or more) So what you're really doing is replacing cheaper debt with more expensive debt.


OK folks, let's count the lies so far:

1) The average Money Merge Account customer will pay their mortgage off 100%, in 1/2 to 1/3 the time, with little to no change to their day-to-day spending habits and without increasing their monthly mortgage payments.


Lie, a MM account works by substantially *increasing* what you're paying toward paying off your mortgage.


2)

OBVIOUSLY extra payments are made . . . they're just not made with your money.

That's a lie. If you borrow money, it is your money. You are responsible for paying it back and you pay for the use of it.

3)

You've leveraged cheap debt to pay off expensive debt.

That's a lie, all else being equal, a HELOC is *more* expensive than a 30 year fixed rate mortgage.


So the question remains. Why would *anyone* in their right mind pay $3500 to someone who repeatedly lies about his product? You're gambling that everything *else* he says is honest, which at this point looks like a poor bet to me.


Old joke dusted off:

How do you tell if TOGA is lying?

His lips are moving. (His fingers are moving on his keyboard?)

 

[Swass]

A Squared - 1


TOGA - 0

 

[WabiSabi]

So the question remains. Why would *anyone* in their right mind pay $3500 to someone who repeatedly lies about his product? You're gambling that everything *else* he says is honest, which at this point looks like a poor bet to me.

To add; Why pay said liar with a cashier's check and sign away your ability to stop payment? This is why you "upline's" policy doesn't take credit cards.

TOGA, you're like the actors these spoofs;
Here ya go!

and almost as funny!

P.S. My $100.00 offer is still good. Come on, considering that I can get Quicken for 60 bucks, it's a reasonable offer.

 

[TWA]

Toga-

If it's so simple, why do we need to spend $3500 on software to make it work. It is quite insulting that you do not believe we have the intelegence to make such a simple concept work on our own.

In other news-

A guy came on here to ask how to get paid to fly under his current set of circumstances. Let's help him out on here, and move the flogging of the scam artist over to the 'Non Aviation Forum'. Just a thought...

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Here's one for ya:

Years ago in NYC there was a flyer posted around many of the subway stations with claims of making extra $$$$ in your spare time. The flyer was perforated at the bottom with little address tabs to tear off.

The flyer asked that you send $5.00 to the address and instructions on how to make money in your spare time would be mailed out promptly.

Now $5.00 isn't a whole lot of money and if you're living check to check and need some extra income, you might send in $5.00 to see what this guy had in mind. What's $5.00 anyway?

Well, if you sent in that fee you were sure to get a reply in the mail. The reply basically said that all you need to do is do what he just did.

Kinda clever I think.


(and NO, I didn't send in $5 bucks - saw it in a news story.)

 

[rumpletumbler]

My current company is about to go under I think. They are in 'tax trouble' we've found out at the end of the year. They stopped taking out taxes/health insurance/child support of our checks at the end of December.

The owner keeps saying we will have a meeting but keeps putting it off. Peoples paychecks are bouncing. I was fussed at for cashing my paycheck last weekend (day after payday).

I may be available full time here shortly and have to work several jobs to stay afloat. I'd just like for flying to be at least two of them.

I'm going to get my medical renewed on the 13th.

BFR I'm going to start saving for after the medical.

 

[Swass]

Toga-

If it's so simple, why do we need to spend $3500 on software to make it work. It is quite insulting that you do not believe we have the intelegence to make such a simple concept work on our own.

In other news-

A guy came on here to ask how to get paid to fly under his current set of circumstances. Let's help him out on here, and move the flogging of the scam artist over to the 'Non Aviation Forum'. Just a thought...

Now that's rich.