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How did the ATL CPO go from wise to rookie in less than 1 year?

FishandFly

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I read the email thinking that Mr Cash was our new CP. I have always respected him and thought this was a good move being that he brings a great deal of wisdom to the office. Unfortunately I misread the announcement and soon realized that Mr Cash is just an assistant.

With all of the top notch old guys who have been around the block, why did they go with a rookie who has little experience?

Brad is a nice guy, but I would much prefer someone who carries some wisdom to fill that vacancy.
 

buscap

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Well...he is the most senior CP in ATL. It would be a bit of a kick in the nuts to put a less experienced CP above him. Pilot experience and CP experience are not the same.
 

crj567

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Brad is a nice guy-

BUT I don't trust him at all.. Brad is a person who is trying to get into upper mgmt. and when it comes to making a stand for someone, he will fold like a cheap wallet.

I really miss some of the old guys. If you were from DFW, RC would help you to the ends of the earth. FL was a champ-nothing but good to say about him. BD was great in my very limited experience, and it was easy to find someone to see things your way. You just had a far more senior group, and these guys had all been around the block more than a couple of times.

The new guys are all pretty much the same. You know they are far more beholden to SH than anyone else in the company-could be worse, but as long as SH is in charge, I will not have much faith in any of them.
 

crjskipper

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well, dont know much about the new guy except for a pc a few years ago and all i remember from that he was pretty cool. i like the new guys and have only good experiences, much better than the old so i guess its a matter of opinion. i would like to know 567 what bs folded on you with specifically? i have only good experiences when i have gone to him for help. things have improved greatly here in the last few years, i have to give sh some credit for that. as i have said before, the old guys were nice but the new guys are a step above in all respects.
 

FishandFly

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Brad being the most senior CP does not mean that there were not a dozen senior guys who were far more qualified for the job.
 

crjskipper

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i have never equated seniority to being qualified. this company has a terrible history of promoting simply due to seniority and not quality. being senior doesnt make you a good cp. i think we have a big disagreement on what being qualified for cp means. regardless, i think the majority of pilots are happy with the way things are going. time will tell.
 

Tarzan

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i have never equated seniority to being qualified. this company has a terrible history of promoting simply due to seniority and not quality. being senior doesnt make you a good cp. i think we have a big disagreement on what being qualified for cp means. regardless, i think the majority of pilots are happy with the way things are going. time will tell.

I agree 100%. Seniority does not always equate to qualification. There are plenty of people at this company that are in their particular position because they were more senior and therefore entitled. Merit should have a plave in the process.

As for the CPO, BS has always done the right thing for me as have the rest. I've gotten it from the guy that is probably the most straight up guy in there that SH says error on the side of the pilots. He also said they are there to stand in between the CP who does represent management (I think since BH got here, there been a heck of a lot more good than bad) and the pilot group.
 

aveator

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Is Doug Helms still flying there at ASA,,He was a kick a$$ dude,,Anduzi was not bad either,,just never be on his bad side..lol..
 

buscap

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My point is it would be unreasonable to ask BS to work under a less experienced CP. The only ways for that to work would be to bring in someone from outside the airline or maybe a more experienced former CP could step back into the role. Otherwise you would have to fire BS. It's management 101. You can't cut a guy off at the knees and then expect him to do a good job.

Yeah, we could definitely find a more experienced pilot, but the way the cards have fallen, BS is our most experienced CP.

I'm neutral on the dude, I'm just making a point about pilot experience and chief-pilot experience being apples and oranges when it comes to this matter. Would I like all the chiefs to have a billion hours and seen it all? Heck yes!! But given the folks who are in there now, it's irrelevant.
 

FishandFly

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I have no complaints about any of the current guys, and certainly see extreme gains over some we've had in the past. My only agitation on the issue is that I think there is wisdom in age and that some of the older guys who were not there to move up the ladder displayed that wisdom time and time again, and were invaluable to the pilot group. There are plenty of occasions when our senior chief pilots have told scheduling or other departments to stick it. Someone who is wanting to move up the ladder is never going to be this decisive in our defense.

Fred and Robert were just the perfect guys to go to imho.
 

crjskipper

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and the main reason i disagree is because i have seen these new guys fight for us. I found the old guys too often said - nothing will change. i have personally seen these guys question scheduling and they know the airplane better than fl or rc ever did. again, age isnt wisdom.
 

sweptback

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I have no complaints about any of the current guys, and certainly see extreme gains over some we've had in the past. My only agitation on the issue is that I think there is wisdom in age and that some of the older guys who were not there to move up the ladder displayed that wisdom time and time again, and were invaluable to the pilot group. There are plenty of occasions when our senior chief pilots have told scheduling or other departments to stick it. Someone who is wanting to move up the ladder is never going to be this decisive in our defense.

Fred and Robert were just the perfect guys to go to imho.

So, by your logic you should resign as a captain and give your seat to one of the many older first officers? After all, there is wisdom in age.

And by the way, no matter who they put in the office, they will still report to SH and will run things how he wants it done. If they tell SH to stick it one too many times they're gone (just ask the one that was fired a few months ago).
 

N1VIBS

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Benn out of the loop for a while. Who si this Cash you're talking about? Is it the instructor pilot who's been in the training dept for a while? Thats the only Cash I know. If so, then IMO he's a good choice. Very knowledgable about aviation and the CRJ. Now as for a CP, who knows? You never know about anyone until they get in the job. I know some of you younger guys/gals think anyone over 40 with a few gray hairs, is probably senile, out of touch with the real world and should be put out to pasture. But you might just be surprised. Some of us older guys might actually know a few things.
 

OCP

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eh...
Cash is really cool cat. Been in the training dept for a while now, but a really fair guy. I would hope he remembers what its like on the line everyday. I think that is something some of the "older" CPs forgot.
 

N1VIBS

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Cash is really cool cat. Been in the training dept for a while now, but a really fair guy. I would hope he remembers what its like on the line everyday. I think that is something some of the "older" CPs forgot.

Speaking of flying the line. Other than as a new hire, has Brad S. ever flown the line on a regular basis? All I remember for the last several years, he was always at the GO in some type of "cubicle" position until he came to the CP office.
 

Speedtape

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I read the email thinking that Mr Cash was our new CP. I have always respected him and thought this was a good move being that he brings a great deal of wisdom to the office. Unfortunately I misread the announcement and soon realized that Mr Cash is just an assistant.

With all of the top notch old guys who have been around the block, why did they go with a rookie who has little experience?

Brad is a nice guy, but I would much prefer someone who carries some wisdom to fill that vacancy.



It's all about $$$$$$ and having someone who will march to the beat of S.H.'s directions--experience has nothing to do with it. The more junior--the cheaper the cost.
 

N1VIBS

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Is Doug Helms still flying there at ASA,,He was a kick a$$ dude,,Anduzi was not bad either,,just never be on his bad side..lol..

Yes, the "Commander" is still flying. Number 1 on the senority list. Good guy. Anduze is retired.
 

crj567

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Speaking of flying the line. Other than as a new hire, has Brad S. ever flown the line on a regular basis? All I remember for the last several years, he was always at the GO in some type of "cubicle" position until he came to the CP office.

I guess that is the main issue I have with BS. The guy was an instructor for a long time-he was one of those F.O. instructors-I think he may have been hired directly into the training department. AS far as I know, he has never floen the line for any significant time.

Now-I do know more about other guys who were F.O. instructors (remember them?) Those other guys are losers and arrogant retards without exception. I guess I may be guilty of transposing my bad feelings about those guys over to BS. Maybe he is the exception-I really hope so.

-If anyone knows any of the F.O. systems instructors who did NOT turn out to be a-holes, let me know. I am thinking specifically of guys like EC an BO-who have horrible reps as instructors.
 

HoserASA

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I've been here 20 years, and I think BS is one of the best CPs we've had. He's always taken care of things I brought up (or caused lol). He always replies back via email when I go that route. Concerning his flying the line and being ambitious in the management chain, so what. Someone has to go that route, and BS doing that is not a problem for me. As far as the new selection, RC, I think he'll be a fine addition to the CP office. Always been a top IP, and as has been mentioned, alot of experience. I'll miss BD & Col RC as CPs though.

Hoser
Roll Tide!
 

AutoTransfer

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What he said.

I second Hoser's remarks. I've dealt with BS several times and he seems to err on the side of what's right, not who's right. I think he'll do well in his new role.
AT
 
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