How about this theory...

[JPAustin]

...In the end, it will be the insurance companies who end up forcing carriers to raise the bar in hiring pilot applicants. At some point (and to a degree we have seen it happening), there will be enough incidents, accidents, customers hurt or killed due to the "bottom of the barrel" being placed into flight decks, that the insurance companies will say to these carriers, "either raise your hiring standards and incentive to attract more qualified personnel or we raise your insurance."


PS -- This is not my theory, I have paraphrased statements from a handful of analysts and statements in aviation business textbooks.

 

[Guitar Guy]

...(and to a degree we have seen it happening)...

I'm not certain what you mean by that statement. Are you saying there have been accidents caused by low-time pilots in commercial service or are you saying that some insurance companies are already raising rates for carriers who hire low-time pilots?

Either way, this is a topic that's been debated much. I will say that I don't think hours in a logbook mean as much as demonstrated skill, intelligence and judgement. And certainly a good training program plays a role, too. Put another way, high-time pilots have accidents, too.

 

[DetoXJ]

It's already happening. Pinnacle is no longer allowed to hire 250 hour Gulfstream wonders since the FL410 Crash had a 300 Hour Gulfstream FO in the right seat.

 

[flying4food]

It's already happening. Pinnacle is no longer allowed to hire 250 hour Gulfstream wonders since the FL410 Crash had a 300 Hour Gulfstream FO in the right seat.

SOURCE?? Oh ya, a Credible SOURCE, not he said she said, or I heard it from so and so, who heard it form so and so in training, so it has to be true!!!

 

[AAflyer]

That is what I heard, my source is the ALPA Pinnacle Secretary/Treasurer. Not second hand info, but directly from him. He seems to have a handle on what is going on there. He has been there since 1997.

AA

 

[k_EAT=ho_ME]

Insurance companies would probably reduce their risk more by forcing companies to eliminate certain operational practices, such as circling approaches, contact approaches, non-precision approaches, etc. I'd be surprised if there's much real evidence that low-timers are a significant risk factor.

 

[AAflyer]

It seems other companies for insurance reasons demand time in type, or substantial total time for insurance reasons. Many of these companies are or WERE smaller, but there may be some merit to this subject.

Just like owning a personal airplane and time in type as well as total time seems to adjust the cost downwards..

AA

 

[FN FAL]

...In the end, it will be the insurance companies who end up forcing carriers to raise the bar in hiring pilot applicants...

Read the news fruit cake. The financial news is predicting that there is going to be a downturn in airline ticket sales and major airlines are downsizing. Insuring new hire low time pilots at the regionals is going to become a non-issue.

 

[CapnVegetto]

c'mon guys.....plain and simple just like Mark Twain said. "Significant evidence" and all that bull$hit it stupid. It's very simple.......300 hour pilot in 460 knot jet = BAD. A very close friend of mine runs the sims at Pinnacle, and he has told me NUMEROUS times about how all the 300 hour wonders from Gulfstream are so far behind the airplane that if they crashed, they'd have to take a cab to the crash site. He's told me about how much better anyone with a little bit of experience is, and how he's had to work so hard to 'get them through' the sim. This isn't hearsay, he said she said, secondhand anything. This is directly from the mouth of a guy I've known for years. At this level, you shouldn't be working hard to get through anything. You are a professional airline pilot. You are expected to meet a certain set of standards when you walk in the door, and are expected to be professional, proficient, and good at what you do. You aren't expected to be there on Daddy's dollar out of your 200 or whatever hours in a 1900 and then spoon fed every little thing and then baby walked through the sim, barely making it through! A freaking RJ is NOT hard to fly. If you have trouble with freaking regional SIC training, then you need to go wax floors or something. Regardless, I'm glad that the 200 hour daddy warbucks wonders aren't getting in anymore. It's better for the safety of the industry. Go out, get some experience, fly some freight, and actually become proficient at being a pilot, and then move into a complex jet when you're ready.

 

[PCL_128]

That is what I heard, my source is the ALPA Pinnacle Secretary/Treasurer. Not second hand info, but directly from him. He seems to have a handle on what is going on there. He has been there since 1997.

AA

He is partially correct. Pilots are still being hired from GIA, but they have to meet the mins just like everyone else. No more 500 hour GIA pilots, but still some 1000 hour GIA pilots.