How About Mice On A Plane? AA jet infested...

[Bat]

Forget Snakes... How About Mice On A Plane?​

This One Rates High On The "Ick" Factor

As you've probably heard by now, a new movie is set to come out in the United States this summer called "Snakes on a Plane"... and the title pretty much sums up the plot. That story is, of course, a work of fiction, intended to appeal to peoples' fears of being in a confined space with the slithery
creatures. Well, in that vein, may we present "mice on a plane?"
This is no movie, though. Seems that St. Louis's KSDK television station obtained a hidden camera video of the conditions on the lower decks of an American Airlines 767 recently... that showed, among other things, chewed wiring.... nests built near oxygen generators and air vents... and all the other, um, signs of a full-blown rodent infestation.​

The worker who reportedly shot the video -- while the plane was in for overhaul at Kansas City International --
said that when crews removed the chairs in the main cabin... mice ran EVERYWHERE... even crawling down a mechanic's arm. Workers also reportedly found dead mice in the emergency oxygen masks.
The worker also told the station an exterminator estimated there were as many as... are you ready for this?...
1000 mice onboard the widebody... although in a written statement acknowledging the problem, American says that number was closer to 17.​

Mice on a plane can a problem for many reasons... not the least of which, besides the substantial "ick" factor, is that they could start a fire.





Meanwhile, the plane is reportedly back in service... complete with a new, mice-free cabin and ventilation system. American says passengers flying onboard the infested plane were ever in danger from the mice. Well, maybe not... but if any of those snakes we mentioned (

which, alas, aren't limited to commercial airliners) should ever get on a plane loaded with mice... at least they'll have something to eat besides the passengers.



​

 

[Lake Alice]

I suppose I disagree a little with AA assesment of their mice problem. Several respiratory illnesses are caused by mice droppings and the like.

 

[LearLove]

I was told the same tale when I first started 121 in the late 90's except it was a Delta 767 and they fixed the problem by parking the plane in Fairbanks with the doors open for some time during the winter to freeze the mice then they cleaned them out. The Capt that told me this has been on a "booze cruz" LOA for about 3 years now.

 

[B6Driver]

AA has had rats flying around for years and it finally makes the news now?
Go figure.

 

[ils2minimums]

While the validity of the story is in question, the fact is there has always been an ongoing problem with infestations on aircraft. We even have FMR codes in the logbook specifically for Insect and Rodent infestations. As long as our planes fly to some of the nastiest shi+holes in the world, we are going to have problems with this sort of thing.

One morning about 8 years ago in San Salvador I walked aboard a dark plane to do a preflight. I flipped the battery switch and as soon as the lights came on, I saw hundreds of roaches scurrying in every possible direction. Between myself and the two flight attendants who weren't screaming, we must've killed at least 6 dozen of them. We wrote it up in MIA and the funniest thing was watching the "solution" to the problem. A cabin service guy with a little can of bug spray about as small as a trial-size deodorant walked down the aisle once from the back of the plane to the front with his arm extended above his head spraying a couple of tablespoons worth of the stuff into the air.

 

[Gorilla]

Ahhh, THAT explains why the guy who deplaned today stated "Wow, I saw no mice!"

B6Driver, KYS. Don't get me started with JB.

In 600+ posts I have never slammed another carrier (Go look for it but you'll be bored), but comments like yours are uncalled for and childish in the extreme.

 

[Mike man]

http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=100017

 

[Whale Pilot]

AA has had rats flying around for years and it finally makes the news now?
Go figure.

Yeah, they occupy seats that belonged to TWA bretheren

 

[Dangerkitty]

Yeah, they occupy seats that belonged to TWA bretheren

Poor me!! Wah wah wah!!! Poor me!!! Wah wah wah!! All the ill's of the world are the fault of those nasty AA pilots!!! Wah wah wah!!! Poor me!!!

 

[Gorilla]

Yeah, they occupy seats that belonged to TWA bretheren

Likewise TWA occupies AA seats. I dropped 4 years worth of seniority after that a$$hat Carty's buyout. Let it go... or, continue to believe TWA would be a viable entity NOW when they were hemhoraging cash for years while everyone else was profitable.

Though experiement: The TWA and APA lists were merged by DOH. Then the inevitable bad times come. The painful give-backs, furloughs, displacements, pay cuts, and general bad times arrive as they did post 9/11. Do you think you'd see posts like this on FI: "AMR sucks. They bought TWA, and here I am coughing up pay and QOL for those pigs. We were a better-run airline. There's no doubt that we'd have been better off as a separate entity." In other words, there'd be bitterness and complaining even with a merge that would be seen as "favorable."

A nice goal - To see a thread on FI with AA in the title that does not devolve into a TWA/AA bash fest. I don't think I've seen it yet.

 

[B6Driver]

AA gets what they have earned; plain and simple. People point out your (APA) greed and you don't like it? Too bad son, Deal...............

 

[Dangerkitty]

AA gets what they have earned; plain and simple. People point out your (APA) greed and you don't like it? Too bad son, Deal...............

B6Driver,

You are a total pu$$y. It's going to be fun watching your airline implode.

 

[aa73]

I think both of you guys need to settle down and read my post titled "Any ex Morris Air guys out there?"

The point of that post was to explore the results of seniority integrations with non-ALPA carriers.

Apparently, Morris Air underwent a 100% staple at SWA and yet their guys are happy. Why?

We stapled about 2/3 of the TWA list and they are ticked off. Why?

Answer: it all depends on the state of the economy and the financial health of the acquiring carrier. Put simply, SWA prospered after the Morris buyout and those guys upgraded to CA fairly quickly, despite the staple.

AA faltered after our buyout and furloughed thousands of pilots, of which a lot were stapled TWA pilots. Had SWA furloughed right after the Morris buyout, you'd have the same bitterness.

Had AA grown and prospered after the TWA buyout, I suspect we'd have somewhat of a different situation over here.

So - a screw job is only labelled a screw job when the newly merged airline falters, and pilots are layed off, after the buyout. And in our case, looks like it was.

73

 

[Mach8Forest]

Likewise TWA occupies AA seats. I dropped 4 years worth of seniority after that a$$hat Carty's buyout. Let it go... or, continue to believe TWA would be a viable entity NOW when they were hemhoraging cash for years while everyone else was profitable.

Though experiement: The TWA and APA lists were merged by DOH. Then the inevitable bad times come. The painful give-backs, furloughs, displacements, pay cuts, and general bad times arrive as they did post 9/11. Do you think you'd see posts like this on FI: "AMR sucks. They bought TWA, and here I am coughing up pay and QOL for those pigs. We were a better-run airline. There's no doubt that we'd have been better off as a separate entity." In other words, there'd be bitterness and complaining even with a merge that would be seen as "favorable."

A nice goal - To see a thread on FI with AA in the title that does not devolve into a TWA/AA bash fest. I don't think I've seen it yet.

BOO HOO!
You claim to have lost 4 years of seniority and some quality of life. Would you like to try the street for a while? That is where your brother TWA captains hired in the 80’s are? If you look close at the numbers, some of your pilots that are still on the property today had not even attained their private pilots license when we were here and flying around the world.
I imagine you were hired in the 80’s looking at your aircraft flown, and the fact you state that you have lost four years, Correct? Remember the 80’s when the TWA pilots flew more people to London than AA carried to the whole continent of Europe? These are some of the career expectation facts that you did not use for merger purposes.
Sure we knew a merger was inevitable given the revolving door mismanaging we experienced through the 90’s. We however never imagined another unionized pilot group totally liquidating our careers. The total lack of dignity and respect shown by the APA to our ALPA reps will never be forgotten. Your weak group of APAviators has aligned themselves with their corporation and not their brothers of the trade, forever destroying the possibility of a national union. The APA sat quiet while AA closed our East and West coast domiciles and quarantined us in St Louis. Then when the downsizing started to accelerate, your APA then used Supp CC to cherry pick even our STL jobs. The Tannen proposal we presented to the APA was more than fair and advantages to the APA, but it did not give them enough blood. Your APA then unleashed its disrespectful Kmart pilot analogizes and propaganda to its members, The APA preferred weapon of choice.
“Stuff the Reno guys because they were Scabs that stole AA jobs in Reno”
“ Stuff the TWA guys because they are operating in bankruptcy and they stapled the pilots of Ozark”
The merger with Ozark was not perfect but the FACT is it was via DATE OF HIRE! Care to have the same merger? As far as I can see my peers in the industry recognizes the APA pilots as worse than a group of SCABS. I hope you are shown the same disrespect you have shown this founding member of ALPA. The fact is APA stole the jobs of our elite 75+ year old pilot group in the name of unionism.
Do you think you or your pilot group would have shown a little more respect to these pigs as you call them if the list was merged via Safety Records? What do you think your seniority # would be then? I think you would have lost a little more than your 4 years and would have serious QOL issues. My estimation is that the seat you would occupy with this type of merger would be the curb on the street.
Mach8Forest!

 

[B6Driver]

aa73,

You always take the high road and always come off as a total CLASS ACT and for this I say thank you. Mach8Forest spelled out the reasons why the TWA family feels the way they do and I know that it gives insight as to those feelings. AA bought TWA and got to make all the rules. I may not like that but that is the way it is, right or wrong.
People like the AAsshole Dangerkitty and his like are the reasons for the continued animosity and if they would stop rubbing salt in the wound things possibly could move on. IMO
Dangerkitty, save your worthless come back because I will not respond; you're not worth any of my time.

 

[Vastly Underemp]

Gorilla.......please explain to me how you lost 4 years worth of seniority when the merger brought more jobs (aircraft front row seats) then there are former TWA pilots on the property. Or is this more APA mathematics (start with the answer you want and make the numbers work)? I think if you calculate relative percentage in your seat/domicile you will find that you are WAY ahead of where you were in 2001......and if you'd care to take into account the depth furloughs would have gone into your seniority list without the merger, I'll accept your polite apology any time.

Furlough Fodder FO

 

[B6Driver]

Vastly,

Please don't use facts, they seem to cloud the issues.
We all need to make peace with ourselves if not with each other. The only constant in life is change. Best of luck.

 

[AAflyer]

AA gets what they have earned; plain and simple. People point out your (APA) greed and you don't like it? Too bad son, Deal...............

Actually what is getting very old is regardless of the title of the thread, this is what transpires. I agree with AA73 the sh1t sandwich you received was not fair, however when are we going to let it go? I was given this treatment the other day by a JB crew who I tried to jumpseat on, I kindly said no thanks and took another airline. I don't care for it on MBs, and certainly do not care for it on the flight deck.

APA is no different than ALPA. Each group out for their own, heck most pilots are out for their own gain right now. I talked to a AWA crew in MSP the other day going through security, they told me what they thought of what was currently going on. I also heard a couple "cherry" comments from UAL guys when that merger was a possibility.

I will not repeat any, however everyone has their own opinion. I think we both agree that both sides would rather have not seen these two airlines come together. However we can try to take the worst and best of the situation and move forward.

Wishing you the best in your career,

AA

P.S. There are many AA pilot who are not happy, or have been happy with the actions and/or comments from APA.

 

[aa73]

B6Driver, thanks for your post.

There will always be bitterness, no question about it. The question I always put to pilots from BOTH sides is this:

To AA pilots: If you would have been in TWA's shoes, would you have been ticked off and at leasta little bitter? Answer: yes, without a doubt.

To TWA pilots: Would you have been happier had AA grown and prospered after the M/A and not furloughed? Yes, without a doubt.

You see, folks, for years and years to come, this merger/acquisition will forever be remembered as one of the worst in aviation history. Why is that?

SIMPLY because of the events that happened right after the deal. Whenever a not-so-harmonious merger happens followed immediately by one of the worst downturns of the aviation history, the pilots affected by the merger will FOREVER blame the actual integration - and not the real cause, which is the severe downturn and furloughs that followed - for their troubles. And WHO CAN BLAME THEM! This is human nature, folks.

Now I ask you good TWA folks - a lot of whom are still great friends of mine and whose pilot group I tremendously admire - I ask you this:

Had AA prospered after the merger, had they grown, expanded, and upgraded hundreds of FOs to CAs, would you guys have been as bitter? Take my example in the other post with SWA and Morris, whose entire pilot group was stapled. We don't read anything regarding their career expectations having been stolen, jobs destroyed, seniority shot. And yet they were ALL stapled. Why, why, why? Because they STAYED ON THE PROPERTY - and they are now prosperous.

So, in the interest of beating this now dead horse skeleton, I acknowledge this fact: Mach8forest, Vastly Underemp, and a lot of others, will ALWAYS blame the APA, AMR, AA pilots, and ALPA for their troubles. In much the same way that the TWA pilot in the opening chapter of "Flying the Line, Vol 2" blames ALPA for his career stagnation.

To this, I also acknowledge that: If we had grown, upgraded and prospered, and Mach8Forest, Vastly, B6Driver and all the other good TWA folks who got furloughed - if they had kept their CA seats here, they would have adopted the same attitude as the Morris guys at SWA - that is, they would have felt lucky that they kept at least some of their career expectations that they had at TWA. You wouldn't have even half of the bitterness that you have today.

And that, folks, is simply because of the events beyond our control - the economy, and the financial health of the airline after the M/A.

To all of those that are bitter - the root of that bitterness is in this paragraph right above. No more, no less. If you want to try and prove me wrong, look no further than SWA/Morris.

regards,
73

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Apparently, Morris Air underwent a 100% staple at SWA and yet their guys are happy. Why?

Answer: it all depends on the state of the economy and the financial health of the acquiring carrier. Put simply, SWA prospered after the Morris buyout and those guys upgraded to CA fairly quickly, despite the staple.

...and all the Morris guys kept their same pay until the SWA pay scale took over...

Tejas

 

[B6Driver]

How long was Morris Air in business?
How many years of service did the most senior pilot at Moris Air lose?
I guess I could Google it.

 

[aa73]

How long was Morris Air in business?
How many years of service did the most senior pilot at Moris Air lose?
I guess I could Google it.

Good question. That is why I asked TC (717Driver), in my other post, if staple jobs were acceptable for small pilot groups at airlines that had only been around for a few years. He responded with what I've always agreed on - that no matter what size the pilot group or airline, seniority integrations should ALWAYS go to neutral arbitration.

A good way to make sure that happens is just to make everyone part of ALPA. That would pretty much guarantee an arbitrated integration.

73

 

[AA717driver]

A good way to make sure that happens is just to make everyone part of ALPA. That would pretty much guarantee an arbitrated integration.

73

Yeah but then you get into the issue of ALPA politics. If "Giant Airlines" pilot group is swallowing up "Minnow Air" which has only been around a few years, the guys at Giant don't want to take the chance that an arbitrator will "screw them outta THEIR seats" and strong-arms Herndon into declaring that ALPA Merger Policy will no longer apply.

I believe Allegheny-Mohawk was ALPA Merger Policy until some large ALPA carrier said NFW and did it's own thing. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

If you could guarantee that policy would be written in stone so it couldn't be changed by anyone, that would work. Maybe the next national pilots union will do that. TC

 

[Mach8Forest]

AA73,
And that, folks, is simply because of the events beyond our control - the economy, and the financial health of the airline after the M/A.
The economy and such has nothing to do with your greed!
AAFLYER
I agree with AA73 the sh1t sandwich you received was not fair, however when are we going to let it go?
Never my friend, I hope you get more than a denied jumpseat for belonging to such a spinless weak pilot group. When were you hired? How would you like to scramble for a medical plan for your kids, sell a house that you swore you would never move out of, etc etc. You are part of this SCAB group that has taken the jobs that were not yours. You have pilots still on the property that were getting ready for thier first solo when I was on a layover in Cairo(on Property)!
Mach8Forest

 

[aa73]

AA73,
And that, folks, is simply because of the events beyond our control - the economy, and the financial health of the airline after the M/A.
The economy and such has nothing to do with your greed!
AAFLYER
I agree with AA73 the sh1t sandwich you received was not fair, however when are we going to let it go?
Never my friend, I hope you get more than a denied jumpseat for belonging to such a spinless weak pilot group. When were you hired? How would you like to scramble for a medical plan for your kids, sell a house that you swore you would never move out of, etc etc. You are part of this SCAB group that has taken the jobs that were not yours. You have pilots still on the property that were getting ready for thier first solo when I was on a layover in Cairo(on Property)!
Mach8Forest

Whoa dude, decaf!

Before you spout off on another rage-fest, take a breath and answer me this question:

Were the SWA pilots greedy in stapling the Morris pilots?

Would you have been happier had 9/11 not happened and you would have kept your Captain's seat?

Until you answer these questions, I will dismiss your above post as contradicting yourself...

73

 

[Mach8Forest]

Whoa dude, decaf!

Before you spout off on another rage-fest, take a breath and answer me this question:

Were the SWA pilots greedy in stapling the Morris pilots?

Until you answer this question, I will dismiss your above post as not your own.

73

Why don't you ask your Reno boys that question. I am not in thier shoes as an upstart company pilot. When I was hired their was no Reno or Morris just AA a mostly domestic Airline. They are better of today as we (TWA) were stapled behind them. Are you feeling guilty by association or just want to justify what your SCAB union has done? It seems to me that the SW pilots with their incredible growth could have given them Date of Hire and not been harmed. I recall that Morris was the first successful copy cat to the SW recipe and had entered Texas. That seemed to be enough for herb to act. The TWA/AA merger is apples and oranges my SCAB friend so Don't compare it.
Mach8Forest

 

[Checknsix]

Ok...so back on subject.

A couple of our guys were apparently flying a new ERJ, recently delivered from the jungle a week or so before. At cruise, eyes glazed over...a big ass green spider comes up from under the FO's side of the dash, runs across the center pedastal, and goes back up under the captain's side of the dash.

Supposedly, their eyes weren't so glazed over the remainder of the flight.

- Checknsix

 

[B6Driver]

Mach,

Chill my TWA brother. AA72 really does appear to be a good guy because of his many positive past postings so please cut him some slack. IMO AA bought TWA and I did not like it. Because of that, they got to make all the rules and again, I didn't like it but thats how it worked out. AA looked out for their current employees and the APA protected their current members and ALPA, well, you know that part.
The problem I carry is the arrogance and in-your-face attitude some of the AA pilots have toward the TWA pilots. WTFO they got everything my 15 years of service offered but they still want us to bow our heads to them?
I've moved on but I'll never forget. Thanks for letting me rant.
Now where's that damn dog?

 

[B6Driver]

Ok...so back on subject.

A couple of our guys were apparently flying a new ERJ, recently delivered from the jungle a week or so before. At cruise, eyes glazed over...a big ass green spider comes up from under the FO's side of the dash, runs across the center pedastal, and goes back up under the captain's side of the dash.

Supposedly, their eyes weren't so glazed over the remainder of the flight.

- Checknsix

I don't buy that story because any fly I've seen in the cockpit always passes out during climb and comes back to life just before landing.

 

[aa73]

Why don't you ask your Reno boys that question. I am not in thier shoes as an upstart company pilot. When I was hired their was no Reno or Morris just AA a mostly domestic Airline. They are better of today as we (TWA) were stapled behind them. Are you feeling guilty by association or just want to justify what your SCAB union has done? It seems to me that the SW pilots with their incredible growth could have given them Date of Hire and not been harmed. I recall that Morris was the first successful copy cat to the SW recipe and had entered Texas. That seemed to be enough for herb to act. The TWA/AA merger is apples and oranges my SCAB friend so Don't compare it.
Mach8Forest

OK...

Mach 8, now that we are on better communicative terms, I will be more than glad to talk with you.

You were pretty vague in answering my question. You described Morris accurately, and the reasons SWA bought them, but you essentially circumvented my question. Whatever the reasons, SWA bought them... yes, they were an upstart.

You may be right referring to apples and oranges regarding the reasons for the buyout - but a seniority integration is a seniority integration. The question in my mind is this - why is a SWA/Morris staple OK, but an AA-TWA staple is not? (And BTW, I am against staples to begin with!)

So, my question still stands - Did the SWA boys screw the Morris boys by stapling them? And most importantly, why don't we hear the Morris boys bitching about being stapled? And finally, what would your attitude be had 9/11 not happened right after the AA/TWA deal and you would have stayed on the property?

Can you answer those questions, Mach8?

If you can answer those questions accurately - I believe we will be in agreement over the point I'm trying to get at.

I am by NO MEANS trying to justify the APA's actions. I have long maintained that the APA should have taken this to a neutral arbitrator.

Finally, you'll notice that I don't refer to you using a derogatory term. If you indeed think I'm a scab, you may not properly understand the meaning of that term.

Just don't call me late for dinner.

73