How a REAL union operates! FLOPS IBT take notes

[Galaxy]

Voice,
I don't know why they think you are a mgt troll. I see you as a pissed off pilot that just wants action and wants it now! Unfortunatly, this is a crappy chess game that takes a long time to play.
I agree with the idea of the letter but think it out. The UAL business plan depends on customers and their returning business. That ad is a smack on the face to UAL MGT and will make passengers think twice about booking with them now. This will reduce the revenue (numbers) which is the only thing MGT looks at.
In FLOPS case the owners have CONTRACTS that they are locked into for a certain time. The customer is going nowhere till the end of the obligation. The owners know there are problems as most of them know it will take 3-4 jets to get them to the destination as the first few will break. FLOPS continues to provide poor service and the customers are going elsewhere. It is a revolving circle- have enough planes, pilots,mechanics to do the job and give each employee the tools they need to do the job. For mechanics it is time- for pilots it's green airplanes and competent crew.
Now.. the cost.. I think an ad like that was just over 100K for a 1 day print. Even if every pilot was paying dues (which they are not) is it worth all the dues is it worth almost 2 months of every dime to go to a 1 day ad to inform the few owners we have left that the S twins suck?
Again I like the idea but it is waaay to expensive for the return on investment so the FLOPS pilots can just say "see what we did". It will not bring any change to the current fight. It will piss of the two dingbats and B19 and they will think of something else to screw you with like double your health insurance...again..

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Thank you yet again, Galaxy for your mature and intelligent point of view...a rarity here.

If that is really the cost of a full page WSJ, there are still other newspaper (or similar) options.
I think the UAL letter is ideal if altered to our circumstances and would be a HUGE help to us.

For United's purposes, I don't think it hurt them in their passenger demographic terms, but then, a good majority of their passenger demographic only goes by cheapest fare, so I don't think it made much of a difference either way.

Here the owners have a huge investment, which they made based on a certain (now false) bill of goods they were presented...So I think that the right letter (and for goodness sake YOU write it because 98% of the goons on here are embarrassingly illiterate) would be amazingly effective.

Voice,
I don't know why they think you are a mgt troll. I see you as a pissed off pilot that just wants action and wants it now! Unfortunatly, this is a crappy chess game that takes a long time to play.
I agree with the idea of the letter but think it out. The UAL business plan depends on customers and their returning business. That ad is a smack on the face to UAL MGT and will make passengers think twice about booking with them now. This will reduce the revenue (numbers) which is the only thing MGT looks at.
In FLOPS case the owners have CONTRACTS that they are locked into for a certain time. The customer is going nowhere till the end of the obligation. The owners know there are problems as most of them know it will take 3-4 jets to get them to the destination as the first few will break. FLOPS continues to provide poor service and the customers are going elsewhere. It is a revolving circle- have enough planes, pilots,mechanics to do the job and give each employee the tools they need to do the job. For mechanics it is time- for pilots it's green airplanes and competent crew.
Now.. the cost.. I think an ad like that was just over 100K for a 1 day print. Even if every pilot was paying dues (which they are not) is it worth all the dues is it worth almost 2 months of every dime to go to a 1 day ad to inform the few owners we have left that the S twins suck?
Again I like the idea but it is waaay to expensive for the return on investment so the FLOPS pilots can just say "see what we did". It will not bring any change to the current fight. It will piss of the two dingbats and B19 and they will think of something else to screw you with like double your health insurance...again..

 

[Freedom]

The Strategy Voice of Treason and B19 (Bob) are working on together:

Notice how Voice of Treason is trying to make himself look like he is on the side, of the Options Pilots, attacking B19?

This is intentional folks. He wants you to think he is on our side, and wanting to help us find a better alternative to what the IBT1108 is offering us.

He puts out suggestions that we spend money we don't have to take out Ads in the Wall Street Journal. Did you know a FULL Page ad in the Journal will run you $100,000, meaning a quarter page ad will run $25,000! For what, exposure of ONE DAY?

The Billboard out by the Meadowlands Sports Complex by Teterboro was specificly selected because the Limo Drivers bringing the big dollars in from Manhattan told us the route they take, and its right by our Billboard, in the Owners face EVERY TIME!

Let's say 70% of our Pilots are paying Dues at $80 dollars per month on average. I think that's a high estimate of how many are paying, but let's be say its 70%. With 550 pilots total (600-approx 50 on LOA), 385 pilots times 80 dollars equals: $30,800 per month income.

Did you know that the monthly costs for us to Negotiate with Management, by the time all the Lawyer and other Professional Fees and expenses, and Salary replacements for our Line Pilots, and facility space rental are considered end up costing the Union approx $25,000 per month!!!!!!

What Voice of Treason and B19 (Bob) are trying to do is to get you to believe you need Representation, just not the 1108. They want you to be looking for a 3rd alternative. An In House Union, like FOPA. Because Management (V of T and B19) knows, with an In House, we'd never have the money to hire professional help to get us through the negotiating process. And then Management WINS!

Did everyone realize that the Billboard was paid for with Funds out of the General 1108 account, not out of the Options Pilots contributions? Who then do you think paid for it? That's correct, the NetJets Pilots supporting our effort.

Everything you see above is Voice of Treason and B19 (Bob) laying the groundwork for a Decertification Campaign of the 1108 at Options. They want the 1108 out, and a TOOTHLESS In House in. A Union that Management won't have to deal with in reality, just in appearance, because the In House will not have the financial resource (help from our NetJets Brothers) to adequately fund our fight.

Remember my Options Brothers, Management does not have to get the Union out to Win the Fight, just get out a Union with Resources. Painting the 1108 in a bad light in favor of an In House is their plan.

You can bank on it.

Freedom is not Free.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

:uzi:

Notice how Voice of Treason is trying to make himself look like he is on the side, of the Options Pilots, attacking B19?

This is intentional folks. He wants you to think he is on our side, and wanting to help us find a better alternative to what the IBT1108 is offering us..

OMG get a LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where are the men in the white coats when you need them?
All these conspiracy theorists need to redirect their energy on something less "James Bond" and based in reality.
I have NEVER EVER in any way suggested an in-house union, yet you DOLTS attach it to any thread I post on because it KILLS you to see THINKing individuals trying to have a SANE conversation.
This is real life, not some crazy movie you create to make your life more interesting!

 

[CA1900]

What Voice of Treason and B19 (Bob) are trying to do is to get you to believe you need Representation, just not the 1108. They want you to be looking for a 3rd alternative. An In House Union, like FOPA.

That's a technique straight out of the Ford and Harrison union-busting playbook. Do it yourself -- you'll save money! You'll keep it in the family!

Nevermind that it'll be wholly ineffective.

Don't fall for it!

 

[Freedom]

Don't you love it when....

:uzi:

OMG get a LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where are the men in the white coats when you need them?
All these conspiracy theorists need to redirect their energy on something less "James Bond" and based in reality.
I have NEVER EVER in any way suggested an in-house union, yet you DOLTS attach it to any thread I post on because it KILLS you to see THINKing individuals trying to have a SANE conversation.
This is real life, not some crazy movie you create to make your life more interesting!

a Union Buster gets caught with his pants down???

He takes it so darn personal. Kinda like someone caught him with his hand in the cookie jar.

Gotta love it!

Freedom is not Free, so fight on my Brothers and Sisters, fight on!

 

[Galaxy]

Thank you yet again, Galaxy for your mature and intelligent point of view...a rarity here.

If that is really the cost of a full page WSJ, there are still other newspaper (or similar) options.
I think the UAL letter is ideal if altered to our circumstances and would be a HUGE help to us.

For United's purposes, I don't think it hurt them in their passenger demographic terms, but then, a good majority of their passenger demographic only goes by cheapest fare, so I don't think it made much of a difference either way.

Here the owners have a huge investment, which they made based on a certain (now false) bill of goods they were presented...So I think that the right letter (and for goodness sake YOU write it because 98% of the goons on here are embarrassingly illiterate) would be amazingly effective.

Thanks-I don't see the need to bash anyone because a difference in opinion. I do get tired of Bob's Babbling BS the same ole crap--look at my union facts page that doesn't even list the IBT 1108 as one of the unions there. So no facts there....
Why not a website for the owners that isn't company run-like the ASAP Flightdeck site that was for NJA owners by the union? Sorry-www.flightoptionssucks.com is already taken by a former sales guy. Is it safe to say that most of the owners travel in and out of TEB? Would not the billboard be enough for now? Spending any amount of $$ on an ad that will come and go like the news is money foolishly spent. We all can agree that the owners could care less about your pay or job conditions. They just want to get from A to B for the cheapest costs to them. Thats why they are here anyway-we are the cheapest that offers more than they can deliver. Only when the pilots inhibit the owners from moving at their pace (hence the PLEDGE) will things change. It happened at NJA and worked. When the phone constantly rings off the hook at CGF with owners lawyers threatening lawsuits on breach of contract or the budget is so far in the red due to charter sell off will it ever have a chance of changing. So that is why the LOUD voices keep saying get on board, do the PLEDGE, pay your DUES. If you don't wish to do that then polish up the resume'.

I feel your pain-it's like banging your head on the wall at FLOPS.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Everything you see above is Voice of Treason and B19 (Bob) laying the groundwork for a Decertification Campaign of the 1108 at Options.

That would be a cold day in HELL when that would happen! I don't agree with the approach of what the union has done at times, but I would CERTAINLY leave if left to deal only with the MUCH WORSE alternative, as would everyone else. Unfortunately right now I see people leaving on a DAILY basis (key union people included) and that scares the H**l out of me...THAT's why I feel it is so necessary to put a visibly PROFESSIONAL image out there. The billboard is a great idea, but done in a more pointed PROFESSIONAL way that lets the owners know EXACTLY what it is these jerks have been doing

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Why not a website for the owners that isn't company run-like the ASAP Flightdeck site that was for NJA owners by the union?

SEE! Now THAT is the result of a THINKING person with intelligent ideas to add in a sane conversation.
That is an EXCELLENT idea...

 

[Galaxy]

:uzi:


It's a simple deal, but you'd rather just tell everyone to QUIT???? That's the PLAN???
Gahd help us ALL if it is.

Yo dude relax--The Union doesn't say quit..
I DO!
The place is so infected that it just isn't worth the fight unless you have a few DUI's or drove a BJ off a runway or statutory raped a minor in ATL on your record and it will be hard to explain at a job interview.
Guys that have gotton fired from FLOPS have found great employment fairly quickly so losing a crappy job isn't the end of the world here....