Houston Mayor OK's Hobby International for SW

[SWA Bubba]

Read pages 12-13 of the following link again Bubba:

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/ktrk/SWA-UACorrespondence.pdf

It indicates central FIS (at DFW) is what Dallas wanted to make the Metroplex airport system more competitive and viable, and Southwest did agree to it. I'm sure you"ll disagree, but It's in black and white. It's part of a legal precedent that is part of the FAA grant process. The Speaker didn't just pull it out of his anal pore. I'm certainly not 100% incorrect.

Out of the first three airports that SWA ever served, two have had to go thru a "crisis", where Southwest Airlines claims the airport needs to be "freed". Is that what's really going on here? If SWA get's exactly what they want at Hobby, it will be a 5 gate building-4 of which are exclusive to SWA. Permanently! Does that sound like Hobby has been "freed"?

It says absolutely nothing of the sort. Page 12 and 13 are part of a United letter attempting to justify limiting international service. The United spokeswoman just says that her interpretation of FAA grant Assurance decision from an unrelated case means that Houston doesn't have to put FIS service into a second airport. It's an interpretation subject to question, and really has nothing to do with the Houston case. It says that in certain cases, the airport authority MAY designate an airport for a specific class or classes of aircraft. It had to do with Arapahoe County airport (in Colorado), and had nothing to do with the Dallas situation. Your spokeswoman mentioned Dallas barely in passing, only saying that Houston could remain like Dallas (if it wanted to), limiting international to one of its airports. The reasons for the new limitations in Dallas had nothing to do with a single FIS location whatsoever (so the Colorado case doesn't apply), and Southwest agreed to nothing related to FIS service. We agreed to some limitations at Dallas Love ONLY to remove the most onerous limitations that were already there (the Wright Amendment). You're stretching two words printed by YOUR spokesperson into an entire unrelated justification, supposedly "agreed" to by everyone. The compromise was agreed to by the 5 parties, but certainly not the bizzare causal connotation that you're ascribing to it.

As far as the 'crises' at two of our three original airports, they both were the makings of other airlines who didn't want to compete with us-- American first and now United. What Speaker Wright pulled out of his "anal pore" was the entire Wright Amendment as an punishment to SWA for winning every court case the other airlines threw at them. It had nothing to do with international flying or FIS services. Here you're mixing your convoluted metaphors.

As far as "freeing Hobby" by building a 5-gate terminal and using 4 of them, what's your point? If we build our own 5-gate terminal, what's wrong with unsing the majority of it? If someone else wants to fly internationally out of HOU, they can do the same, or convince the Houston airport authority to expand its terminals. And to be honest, I suspect that will happen. HOU is nowhere near its capacity, and can probably support more international flying than just the 25-30-odd flights per day that Southwest wants to do.

You seem to be clutching at straws now...

Bubba

 

[Flopgut]

Here's the deal flop-

Should government decide how private businesses conduct operations?

I realize you don't think the govt should tell business how to conduct operations. And I might be able to agree. If you could also possibly agree that it is not the govt's job to bend to the will of one company that wants to do something that is of detriment to every other competitor, AND possibly the traveling public.

What is being described to us is that FIS and C&BP services for IAH will be strained to the point that process times more than double. Is that just suppose to be our tough luck? We built a facility that could be doubled right now. Hobby will run fine, it's small. IAH will be ruined. Is that what the govt is suppose to do?

*Edit* Wave: The govt already gives us guidance on how our airplanes and airports will be built and repaired and run. They provide guidance for all manner of things from runway lengths to wx requirements. I mean they are involved in everything! You think they are suppose to be 100% hands off on airport issues?

 

[Flopgut]

It says absolutely nothing of the sort. Page 12 and 13 are part of a United letter attempting to justify limiting international service. The United spokeswoman just says that her interpretation of FAA grant Assurance decision from an unrelated case means that Houston doesn't have to put FIS service into a second airport. It's an interpretation subject to question, and really has nothing to do with the Houston case.

As far as the 'crises' at two of our three original airports, they both were the makings of other airlines who didn't want to compete with us-- American first and now United.

First Paragraph: You do a nice job of helping to illustrate my point. Houston DOES NOT have to accomodate you! GK says "I just want a building permit", to paraphrase Wave, he says "how dare govt presume they can tell business what to do". The grant assurance decision specifically says the govt CAN decline to accomodate you. Read what United goes on to point out as further justification. IAH was built to accomodate all Houston international flights, it is no where near capacity, and the entire investment stands to be ruined because we can't staff both Hobby and IAH.

Second paragraph: In both cases, all American and United wanted you to do was come to the main airport. That's synonymous with wanting to compete with you.

 

[waveflyer]

I realize you don't think the govt should tell business how to conduct operations. And I might be able to agree. If you could also possibly agree that it is not the govt's job to bend to the will of one company that wants to do something that is of detriment every other competitor, AND possibly the traveling public.

What is being described to us is that FIS and C&BP services for IAH will be strained to the point that process times more than double. Is that just suppose to be our tough luck? We built a facility that could be doubled right now. Hobby will run fine, it's small. IAH will be ruined. Is that what the govt is suppose to do?

Then it looks like you built a facility that was too large-

Thats a risk your company took- businesses are supposed to take into account possible competition when they make capital expenditures

 

[waveflyer]

First Paragraph: You do a nice job of helping to illustrate my point. Houston DOES NOT have to accomodate you! GK says "I just want t building permit", to paraphrase Wave, he says "how dare govt presume they can tell business what to do". The grant assurance decision specifically says the govt CAN decline to accomodate you. Read what United goes on to point out as further justification. IAH was built to accomodate all Houston international flights, it is no where near capacity, and the entire investment stands to be ruined because we can't staff both Hobby and IAH.

Second paragraph: In both cases, all American and United wanted you to do was come to the main airport. That's synonymous with wanting to compete with you.

A main airport that had guaranteed delays due to a hub and spoke strategy your mgmt deploys. Longer taxi times, inconvenient location. You don't really understand a free capitalistic economy do you?

 

[Flopgut]

Then it looks like you built a facility that was too large-

Thats a risk your company took- businesses are supposed to take into account possible competition when they make capital expenditures

A main airport that had guaranteed delays due to a hub and spoke strategy your mgmt deploys. Longer taxi times, inconvenient location. You don't really understand a free capitalistic economy do you?

Completely false. It's a great airport, and it was the perfect size.

The reality is that SWA's decision to use/stay at small airports was the bigger error than large improvements to IAH, and you don't want to live with the consequences. You might get a pass a second time on Hobby, but the backlash is coming. When IAH ends up looking like Pittsburg, Houston falls into rust-belt decay because they can't attract industry, and you guys can't make good on a $130 fare to Bogota, don't create 10,000 jobs and don't add 1.6 billion to the economy? Well, it will be fun to watch. That's the one big error your CEO has made--He promised Houston he "won't let them down". He, and you, will...

 

[Flopgut]

Well, I don't like govt delays in IAH anymore than I'd view it as an excuse not to serve Hobby.
Govt has a role and responsibility to work efficiently when they are the ones requiring the facilities.
I'll stand with you to help get govt more efficient

Then it looks like you built a facility that was too large-

Thats a risk your company took- businesses are supposed to take into account possible competition when they make capital expenditures

Hey, uh, did you not write both these posts?! I'd like to point out that I've disagreed with you with a certain amount of graciousness, and I don't think it's entirely out of the question that you try to do the same. This is the same thread off of two adjacent pages and you can't be consistent. Yeah, I know it's just the SWA way.

 

[waveflyer]

The top quote is speaking of govt staff and payrolls and any facilities they are responsible for building- You know bc it's a govt requirement to have customs- then they ought to work with airlines to be efficient while performing a duty they require and (rightfully so) won't let private companies perform)
The bottom is concerning facilities that airlines build.

You get logical flop, and I'll get graceful

 

[waveflyer]

Completely false. It's a great airport, and it was the perfect size.

The reality is that SWA's decision to use/stay at small airports was the bigger error than large improvements to IAH, and you don't want to live with the consequences. You might get a pass a second time on Hobby, but the backlash is coming. When IAH ends up looking like Pittsburg, Houston falls into rust-belt decay because they can't attract industry, and you guys can't make good on a $130 fare to Bogota, don't create 10,000 jobs and don't add 1.6 billion to the economy? Well, it will be fun to watch. That's the one big error your CEO has made--He promised Houston he "won't let them down". He, and you, will...

Well, time will tell- but tell me again if we participate in a govt regulated free capitalistic society, or if we live in a government controlled crony capitalistic society.

Sometimes I can't tell- but I can tell you which one I believe we ought to live in and which is more efficient and successful.

Tell me where southwest was ever party to the agreements that built IAH? Tell me where southwest has ever desired to fly out there?
So why on earth would we be restricted to airports that you had built bc you needed the room and runways for your hub and spoke widebody flying?

You need that airport, we didnt and still don't.

Seems to me that if it fails, your company is the one that would be on the hook for justifying why you needed all that expensive, expansive airport when Swa serves the city just fine out of old already built hobby.

Or maybe we just have two different business plans- both of which the city of Houston benefit from having-

Funny how chicago is supposed to be corrupt land of Obama- and california is lefty socialist, but free market Bush land Texas is the one that can't stop getting their hands all over the protectionist policies that hurt one of their largest and most successful airlines

 

[Flopgut]

Tell me where southwest was ever party to the agreements that built IAH? Tell me where southwest has ever desired to fly out there?

The whole issue is that IAH was built to accomodate ALL Houston's international flying. SWA became a party to it when you wanted to fly outside the Country. That is the whole reason this is going on!!??

Your second question? I don't know what to say... I mean for God's sake Wave, were all those SWA planes I saw at IAH for all those YEARS diverts or something?! YGTBSM Wave!! Is your brain not working today?! Southwest used to serve IAH!!! You actually going to tell me SWA never desired to do that?! It's was some kind of accident or your arm was being twisted!?