Hours for PIC upgrade

[Kiwi]

Our CP has just ammended our operations manual and I think he's been very mean to our co pilots.

It now states that they must have 1200 hours JET time before commencing any PIC upgrade training.

I think thats a little on the high side, as all our guys have over 5000TT [on turboprops - Not many jets downunder] and with our department average 250 - 300 hours per year, a new guy would have to wait at least four years.

My question is - what is your company policy regarding JET time for command upgrades.

 

[Windsor]

Probably not the CP's fault. I'd blame the rising insurance costs. In most cases the insurance companies set the times and experience they want to see. If you fail to meet them, they jack the prices sky high

 

[Mercury]

My question is - what is your company policy regarding JET time for command upgrades.

Our company requirements for upgrade on the LR60 are: 3000 TT 1000 turbine(prop or jet) and 100 hrs in type. Must complete a recurrent training cylce prior to upgrade. (all of our newhires are typed during initial)

hope this helps and have a G'Day

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

As said above, probably the insurance company making that rule.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

My question is - what is your company policy regarding JET time for command upgrades.

Whatever the insurance company tells them it is.

 

[jschroed]

Jet PIC's:
ATP
3500 TT
2000 PIC
1500 Twin engine
300 Night
300 Inst
500 Jet
100 type

Thats pretty fair for the industry but I'm sure when I get close it will go up.

 

[Hawker800]

For our Hawker800
3500 total
1000 multi
500 jet
200 in type
recurrent within a year / set by insurance

 

[AZ Typed]

If it's not the insurance co. - it's Wyvern and AR/GUS telling companies what times are required. Wyvern and AR/GUS are killing this industry with their outlandish requirements. Under their standards, a guy with 2000 PIC in a piper cub is more qualified to fly a multiengine jet than a guy with 5000 SIC in a 737. It's a big fat joke sold to the industry by some slick salesmen. Unfortunately, it is what it is and some folks will not see a seat in a jet or the left seat in their own jet for many years.

AZT

 

[Blackjet]

The brokers are flight department managers now?

It is very embarrassing to see how many CORPORATE folks are on here saying "Whatever the insurance says is what it is". That's for the birds. There is a name for someone who lets the insurance company run their flight department: Loser.

Don't think for 1 minute that the insurance broker is the final say. Department managers at the top of their game tell the insurance people how it going to be, they dont ask. Lets remember who works for who here. At the end of the day, it's up to the underwriter who gets approved for what. If the underwriter is putting high mins on everything you do and you cant get anyone approved for anything, then either you are a department with a "history", or the broker has a poor relationship with the underwriters (READ: more than 1 of his clients has had claims, broker sells home owner insurance and does AvSurance on the side, etc). The mins everyone has chimmed in with are OK for an 'Open Pilot' clause, such as a contract PIC, but for a named pilot, no 2 people are the same, and if people are just accepting that because the broker says that is how it is going to be, then the department manager should be let go, as he is certainly not doing his job and probably bleeding the company's $ in other places as well.

Kiwi, notice the "Heavy hitters" here on FI didn't write in telling you "uhhh, you have to take what the insurance says because it is what the insurance says you have to do.", because they don't have those issues. They Call the broker and say, "Such and such is upgrading next week as soon as he gets back from recurrent. Have the insurance reflect the change and I'll be expecting a copy of that faxed over to me by end of business. CLICK!" At that point if the broker tries to say anything, he's talking to himself because the Dept manager has already hung up as he has other more important things to do than to waste company time talking to the broker. Keep in mind, as a professional, it is assumed you are not wanting to get someone approved that is not reasonably qualified. That is understood in writing this reply.

One piece of advice that will get you far: Don't take a 'NO' from someone who does not have the authority to give you a 'YES'.

AZ Typed is on the right page. Lots of the auditing firms do set their own mins, and they can dictate whatever they want, but as for insurance, 2000PIC, 100 in type? That's laughable.

So, the department co-pilot is ready to upgrade due to attrition. He has been a co-pilot for the last 5 years. He has been swapping every leg, doing all the flight planning, systems and pre flight checks, etc and he is fully PIC qualified, the PIC position was just not available until now, so he has less then 2000 PIC, but 3000 hours in type. Some broker is going to tell him NO and the loser department manager is going to go along with it?

Even better, now said department gets a new type of aircraft. And now they have to do what until they (Each PIC designee) get 100 hours in type? Insurance says all PICs must have 100 in type, so since the airplane is newly available to the industry and no production test pilots have been hired, is the airplane now parked? See where this is going? These are rules that people can't even explain if you ask them about them because they dont make sense.

 

[ekuflyer]

Our ins. company caved on their original requirements of 200 in type for me. They ended up giving me the nod at 27 hours for single pilot PIC in a 525. I have 2500, 1900 multi and 1750 turbine, 1600ish being SIC.

It just takes some negotiating with your broker you then negotiates with the underwriter. I was told it can help to actually meet the underwriter as well. They feel better taking a little more risk with someone they have met.