Hour-Building

[Thomas_n]

Hi im just looking if anyone like me is looking for some cheap flying towards the Instrument and CPL.
I need about 100 hours of flying, and would therefor like to finde someone who would like to do the same...
We will be able to share the price of the airplane 60 dollars 30 per person an hour for the C 172. and still both logg the hours as PIC. I live in North Dakota.
So if you are interrested in som Very cheap flying, then send me an Email. [email protected]
Thanks
Thomas

 

[sky37d]

Actually, you can't.
You can't have 2 people in a plane, and have both people simultaneously logging PIC time, especially a 172.
Simply not legal. The Pilot not flying can't log the time at all, unless he/she is a CFI.

 

[Thomas_n]

Before you say anymore look what FAA is saying.....
YES it might sound strange but you CAN.
alot of Schools are doing it over here Right now....
Aribenaviator and Airdesertpacific just to mention some....
But Read this page...
http://www.propilot.com/doc/legal3.html

And you will change your minde, it is POSSIBLE
Thomas

 

[jergar999]

All thats left is to dig up a CFI who will log PIC and dual given from the back seat and split the costs three ways.

 

[Thomas_n]

That should in Theori be possible, BUT who is in Charge!!!!!
when you fly under the hood ofcause you can't see anything and your Safety pilot has the Final VOTE....
the instructor can't do anything, if something goes wrong, so that might be a bit to far out, but again might be possible

 

[Foobar]

As to the quality of the time... well a whole other debate but

You anti-safety pilot PIC people should learn the difference between logging PIC time and being the PIC.

In short...

A safety pilot can log PIC time

A private pilot with no instrument rating can log pic time while under an IFR flight plan and in the clouds with an instructor

A pilot with no complex or high performance rating can log PIC time with an instructor in a plane that requires either of those endorsements

 

[Thomas_n]

The Only thing im saying is that it is Possible, and for People who need to save money where they can cos the total training is more then 20.000 dollars, this is a small help...
The quality of the time, well always up for debate, me personal think that you can Learn Alot from each other, and som good simulated instrument time might actually help you when you are doing your Instrument rating...And i rather have 50 hours of Instrument flying then just going up alone in my 172 and Fly some LOOONG borring Cross contry flights, everyone can do that, it aint hard to fly straight and Level In VFR for 100 hours.
Again it might for some people look Wrong and for others look Great, some of the schools that are doing it this way have more then 100 students flying, and let's say that the money aint an issue, ok paying 6000 dollars for 100 hours, why not pay 6000 dollars and get even more expierence with 200 hours in the Book....No mader What!!! Every timer you fly you learn something NEW, that's why it's so great Flying.....

 

[dmspilot00]

Actually, you can't.
You can't have 2 people in a plane, and have both people simultaneously logging PIC time, especially a 172.
Simply not legal. The Pilot not flying can't log the time at all, unless he/she is a CFI.

Good lord. Read the FARs and stop spewing information that has no basis in fact and has been perpetuated by myth, assumption, and guessing.

 

[pipers]

Actually, you can't.
You can't have 2 people in a plane, and have both people simultaneously logging PIC time, especially a 172.
Simply not legal. The Pilot not flying can't log the time at all, unless he/she is a CFI.

Your an MEI...you should know that isn't exactly true. Your safety pilot can log the time and isn't even required to put in their log book that they acted as safety pilot. All they need to do is to put the sig. in the other pilots book......

More questionable however is those who log the landings when acting as safety pilot.....unless of course those landings were performed under the hood.

 

[Foobar]

Exactly....

In fact the safety pilot can log the flight time, but really couldn't log the landings and if its a X-country only the pilot doing the takeoffs and landings could log it as X-country time. This is specifically addressed in the part 91/61 FAQ produced by the FAA.

As with all things, moderation. Show up for you interview with 2000TT and 1800 of that as a safety pilot and it will show. Use it to log your first 25 or 50 hours of multi time so you can be insured and actually start flying a twin, well nobody will notice or care.

 

[Thomas_n]

It is as you say something that can be used in the beginning, and i would never keep flying and log Safety time....I just see it as a good Idea for 100 hours of flying, and it is a good way to help Young People like me who like to get a Commercial licence economic...When you go out an borrow 30.000 dollars as a 23 year old kid. Then every Cent you are able to save, money you can use for food and rent. OR even better More FLYING JUBII

 

[bssthound]

Foobar says: As with all things, moderation. Show up for you interview with 2000TT and 1800 of that as a safety pilot and it will show. Use it to log your first 25 or 50 hours of multi time so you can be insured and actually start flying a twin, well nobody will notice or care.

Excellent! Intelligent, to the point, and factual. That should just about wrap it up!

 

[norskman2]

From the Western Pacific FSDO

http://www.awp.faa.gov/fsdo/art_pilot.htm

Normally, a safety pilot, required by regulations, who scans for traffic for a pilot flying under simulated instrument conditions is not pilot-in-command and thus logs second-in-command. However, if the two pilots agree that the safety pilot is designated pilot-in-command, the safety pilot/pilot-in-command may log PIC since he is the pilot responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft. The pilot flying is "sole manipulator of the controls for which the pilot is rated"" and may also log PIC. Therefore, two private pilots may log PIC under these conditions. However, the safety pilot/pilot-in-command must realize that anything that occurs during the flight is his responsibility. Airspace violations, non-compliance with ATC instructions, near mid air collision, and runway incursions on the ground are all now charged to the safety pilot. A recent article in a monthly aviation publications discussed a flight where there was a violation and the two pilots disagreed who was pilot-in-command.

 

[dmspilot00]

runway incursions on the ground are all now charged to the safety pilot.

When I saw this, I had to stop and think... then I realized... why would a safety pilot acting PIC be necessary, possible, or even legal during taxiing?? Rhetorical question, of course.

As far as landings, you only log the landings you perform.

 

[Thomas_n]

You never done 0 take-off's ok the Taxing and landing, when it's just in the beginning anyway....it's not like 1000 of Landings or takeoffs

 

[jergar999]

One other thing to think about, are you even instrument rated? You need only a private certificate with appropriate category and class ratings to serve as a safety pilot, but without an instrument rating can you log PIC under the hood? I would think you would learn a lot more if it were you and an instructor pursuing a rating then just trying to build time as cheaply as possible.

 

[Salty Dog]

All this FAR baloney and not one snide comment about North Dakota?

C'mon guys, yer slippin'!

 

[Thomas_n]

LOL
HEY HEY there!!!!we got Lot's of runway's...the whole state is a Runway...

 

[Pistonpilot]

That's how I managed to get 150 hours of multi engine time.
I found a partner and split the cost of a Piper Seneca for a rate of $100 an hour. It cost each of us $50 an hour.
We filed IFR flight plans from one airport to another all over Los Angeles. We would each do four legs under the hood ,then get out and switch seats. It was great experience for the level I was at.
Los Angeles is a great place to do this. Lots of airports in close proximity, many different types of approaches to choose from, busy airspace, great ATC. Shortly after we would reach our cruise altitude it was time to check ATIS and get ready for the next approach.
It was also great experience to observe the pilot flying under the hood and learn from the mistakes they made.
This type of flying can be very beneficial if you make it that way.
Don't just cruise straight and level for hours under the hood make it challenging for both the pilot under the hood as well as the safety pilot.

 

[Av8trxx]

We filed IFR flight plans from one airport to another all over Los Angeles. We would each do four legs under the hood ,then get out and switch seats. It was great experience for the level I was at. Los Angeles is a great place to do this. Lots of airports in close proximity, many different types of approaches to choose from, busy airspace, great ATC.

I did the same thing and it was an excellent way to gain experience! No bump on a log safety pilot here. It was work. Flying an Aztec all over So Cal, IFR, in a structured "crew" environment made it a great learning experience. Capt & F/O type duties and flows. It helped when it came time do the sim at my interview and in ground school

Shortly after we would reach our cruise altitude it was time to check ATIS and get ready for the next approach. It was also great experience to observe the pilot flying under the hood and learn from the mistakes they made. This type of flying can be very beneficial if you make it that way. Don't just cruise straight and level for hours under the hood make it challenging for both the pilot under the hood as well as the safety pilot.

I couldn't agree more. Make it challenging. Work the IFR system. If you do it like this, you both will get a lot of out it AND save money too.