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Horrible Corporate Job Open

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gunner15 said:
:( Just because you make it to the second phase does not mean jetBlue will offer you the job. I made it to the second phase and had nothing in my background history and I got my DHL letter on the 7th of Jan. I had a type with 2300 hrs.on the bus, and 12,000 total with 4000 PIC and 17 yrs of 121 exp.

It was also my second interview with jetBlue.

Gunner15

What's a DHL letter?

enigma
 
perhaps

Wrongful termination suit.

Consult lawyer in that state.

If case is legally viable, the hammer will fall on that company.
 
There has been some good advice....

Albie -- I'm posting directly to the board so that others may ask questions and/or see my "legal advice." (Remember I am flying full-time and NOT practicing.....)


First, I am not licensed in Florida, however, am licensed in Michigan (which is also an "at-will employment" State). Any pursuit of litigation would be under either the State statute and/or the theory of wrongful termination (think employee handbook and/or company policy).

DLRedline hit it precisely -- LOOK AT THE COMPANY HANDBOOK.

If the pilot is flying a GV, then I would make the presumption that the company is large and employs many individuals. As such, there is a personnel department and, when the pilot was hired, he was given a company policy and/or manual AND an employee handbook -- generic to the company but not his position. I would definitely look under "termination" because it MAY have the standard language that "he is an at will employee and said employment does not create a contract.....etc.)

If he is lucky, there might be some type of statements regarding causation for dismissal -- the usual -- tardieness, absenteeism, alcohol/drugs. There might be some help in the employee handbook and/or company manual that a labor/employment attorney could utilize. If he does not have these materials, is there anyone on the "inside" who would be willing to provide a copy for him to view??


Next, I would look to Florida Statutes and case law regarding employment-at-will. Being a Southern State, I would believe that it is very pro-business vs. pro-labor. As such, there may not be much recourse available.

Finally, AND THIS IS THE STRONGEST ARGUMENT.....did he retain a copy of the NON-COMPETE agreement the company wanted him to sign? Non-compete agreements are legal, however, they have to be VERY specific with a duration and/or type of employment sought. Additionally all non-compete agreements/clauses are viewed case-by-case. If the company is forcing (what I would consider) an indentured servant type non-compete agreement, he MIGHT have a case.........

Alas, even though it is the strongest, it wouldn't be considered "ripe" for litigation, unless he signed the clause/agreement, sought employment elsewhere, and was terminated therefater.


DLRedline was also correct with respect to the discrimination issues: Is the individual in a defined protected class? (Curious DL -- what state are you licensed??).

Other comments:

I a not familiar with the jetBlue process, however, most other companies will NOT complete a PRIA and/or work history background check unless it is authorized by the prospective employee (i.e., "Please do not contact my present employer unless there is an offer of employment). Was there some type of breakdown in this process?

Since he is married with a family to support, I would also apply for unemployment. First, it would be some type of (albeit menial) income, it is better than nothing. Second, every time a company is required to pay unemployment (or worker's comp), their rates increase.

NOTE: The company will fight the unemployment benefits, however, it is a starting point. For example, when the unemployment forms are completed, there is a box to check "reason for unemployment" (not familiar with the exact wording of FL). If he does plan litigation in the future, the court will look upon whether or not he applied for unemployment and WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR THE UNEMPLOYMENT.

Additionally, if he is an AOPA member, he should contact them. Yes, they normally handle pilot certificate actions, a/c issues, etc., however, he might find an attorney in the state of FL that is also an employment/labor attorney who already "understands" pilot issues.

I would also advise him to obtain a copy of his personnel file, signed by the Personnel Manager. indicating the number of pages in the file, etc. This will be important when he is looking for work at a later date. There will be no surprises and the company would not be able to add "hurtful" information.

SHORT ANSWER:
CONTACT AN EMPLOYMENT ATTORNEY

(Note: If this is a large company in FL, there might be issues finding an attorney to take the case: conflict of interest and/or the practice is interested in working with that specific company.)


I am very sorry to hear about the misfortunes of another pilot. I strongly believe that when there is an abundance of pilots on the market, we see many employers "true colors" (good and bad). Or call it the laws of supply and demand.

Take care & Fly Safe
 
Midnight Mike said:
Well think about it from the company's point of view, this pilot is only staying at the Corporate job until Jetblue calls. If I were the Corporate Carrier I would feel the same way, stay, or quit now, they gave the pilot the chance to resign.

As for a lawsuit, on what grounds, the fact that he was looking for employment elsewhere could be grounds for termination, plus, don't forget, at most companies "AT WILL EMPLOYMENT", escape clause for most companies to terminate your arse for any reason.

Midnight,

I can see the company's point of view, but can you see the employees point of view? Corporate flying jobs are great, as long as they last. It gets scary when the company sells the jet.

I need to learn more about AT WILL EMPLOYMENT. This garbage about being terminated for job hunting is COMMUNISTIC. If you like to keep the worker down and pray to your corporate HQ then keep on supporting it.
 
Last edited:
JohnDoe said:
quote:
"As far as feeling good about working somewhere and getting something for your 110% effort.....dont kid yourself folks, JetBlue will be just as nasty and lay off your a$$ in a second when bad times comes. That "warm-fuzzy" company attitude is all a JOKE."

You mean, like they did after 9/11. Oh wait, we didn't furlough a single person and even kept the IAD crewmembers on staff when the IAD startup was postponed.

Yeah...you've really figured JetBlue out!

AKAAB
:D
 
http://west.thomson.com/product/13515583/product.asp

Paul Tobias is an expert on wrongful discharge. In a USAToday article a couple of years ago he said that the arena of litigating wrongful discharges in at-will states is different than in the past - more favorable to the employee.

Google "Litigating Wrongful Discharge" and you'll find some great information.

Good Luck!
AKAAB
 
AKAAB:


Sorry, but I was not the original poster of that quote. Gulfstream 200 was (hence the word "quote" in my post).

And where did anybody say anything about 9/11? Seems some people are fixating on that.

I agree with Gulfstream for the most part. If Jetblue, or anybody else for that matter, was losing millions (and that is the key to his post, the phrase "when bad times comes"), don't kid yourself, people would be laid off. You and somebody else here are saying "nothing happened after 9/11, so you are wrong." Well, has Jetblue been losing money quarter after quarter? No, they haven't. Thats why your 9/11 arguement is apples to oranges. Again, the phrase I agree with is the "when bad times come." If Jetblue starts losing millions quarter after quarter like other airlines are, and they don't furlough anybody, then I will gladly agree with you.
 
I disagree completely. Just because it as an "at will" state doesn't mean that you can fire a person because you "feel like it" or it will most definitely be seen as discriminatory, and discrimination in this case would be pretty simple.
I'm just telling you what I've seen personally, on two occasions, and what the company attorney told us. Your mileage may vary.

:rolleyes:

Minh
 
Yes, Yes AKAAB -- reread my post. I am fully aware JB didnt lay anyone off after 9/11.....thats great.

But really, do you tools think they kept you on because they LIKE YOU?????

weird.
 
C'mon Gulfstream!

You're not gonna gain many converts when you use words like "tools" to describe the many fine folks at jetBlue. Everyone understands what you're trying to say...airlines exist because they are in business to make money (although one could argue that point!).

Yet with that understanding not all airlines are created equal. In the case of jetBlue, management has DEMONSTRATED that they value their employees as assets AND will do whatever they can to ensure that they will be treated fairly and humanely. As long as they can keep walking the walk then they desrve the benefit of the doubt. However, the only ones who can fairly judge JBLU management motives are the employees who work on the inside and receive a paycheck from the company. Everyone else is just an amateur observer.
 
FlyBoeingJets

I have always said that looking for a job, while working with your present employer is kind of like cheating on your wife, everything will be fine as long as you do not get caught.

I am looking for another job, but I cover my arse so as to not get caught.
 
This is weird (or just coincidental maybe)... but I'm sitting here reading about the Florida GIV Captain who was just terminated, and look what popped up in my inbox while reading:

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:12 PM
To: NBAA Jobs Air Mail
Subject: [NBAA-jobs] Gulfstream Job


Small Central Florida company is seeking a qualified GIV Captain. Please fax resume, cover letter and statement of currency to 407 322 8867


Christopher Hall <[email protected]> ________________________________________
 
Why is JetBlue conducting a background check prior to offering a class date? Though you are not yet a dues-paying member, you are a prospective ALPA Member. I would get ahold of someone there to get the carrier to discontinue this practice which is likely an effort to screen applications and reduce file cabinet volumes @ HR. Get that Unemployment claim in ASAP, could take months to prove you lost the job through no fault of your own and start collecting checks. Depending on your benefit payout, your kids may qualify for state benefits and insurance. You have paid into these programs throughout your career(s) with taxes and they are a great help in these situations. JetBlue stock rose 7% today after Delta's fat lady sang-out on Song! Hopefully this background check is a reflection on just how close to a class date you are and you won't be on Unemployment long!

Good luck,
100-1/2

ps. - You should have been given a company manual from HR when you were Hired in the GIV. The manual is a binding contract in the event one does not exist for specialized positions such as pilots and often supercedes state laws such as the "At-Will" status. If they state they will give cause and/or disciplinary action prior to termination, they must adhere to that language or be in breach. A simple demand letter from a reputable attorney may cost you a couple of hundred bucks to get the lines of communication open with your former employer. In most cases and depending on your length of employment and DOCUMENTED performance, you will be entitled to AT LEAST 1 year's salary AND Benefits. A Jury of your peers will award much more on average if your former employer refuses to settle prior to trial.
 
Found this on the corporate page. Hummmmmm?

Small Central Florida company is seeking a qualified GIV Captain. Please fax resume, cover letter and statement of currency to

407- 322- 8867
 
Planejobs.com

It is also on Planejobs.com
 
G4G5 said:
Found this on the corporate page. Hummmmmm?

Small Central Florida company is seeking a qualified GIV Captain. Please fax resume, cover letter and statement of currency to

407- 322- 8867


The phone number is for a Sanford, FL address
 
100-1/2 said:
Why is JetBlue conducting a background check prior to offering a class date? Though you are not yet a dues-paying member, you are a prospective ALPA Member.

Good luck,
100-1/2


If he gets hired by JetBlue it may be a very LONG time until he becomes a member of ALPA. They aren't on the property at JB.
 
dohh!

In absence of ALPA, surely some form of collective bargaining unit exists that could halt future practices in this form. Though, I was unaware of ALPA's lack of presence and thinking faster than typing, I was generally speaking of any airline (none to my knowledge) violating the integrity/confidentiality of an applicant's pursuit for placement.

On a side-note, ALPA's recent performance probably has some wishing for an alternative within their firms.

Sorry, hard to keep up with all the Jones-es while running my own shop.

100-1/2
 
FlyBoeingJets said:
I need to learn more about AT WILL EMPLOYMENT. This garbage about being terminated for job hunting is COMMUNISTIC.

Sounds more like corporate & capitalistic! It's a dog eat dog world out there.
 

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