Horrible Corporate Job Open

[AlbieF15]

Board Regulars,

A client of mine who applied to jetBlue was terminated by his flight department today for simply applying. When the background check stuff came through they were livid. Below is an exerpt from a letter to me:

Here's the letter:

Well, it is official. I was given the choice again this morning to resign all interest and application with jetBlue and keep my job or resign from my present GIV Captain position. In addition I must agree to never again pursue any other employment opportunities. Pretty amazing! My response was that jetBlue is where I want to work and I was not willing to give up that potential opportunity. I also indicated to them that I currently need this job and have no other job offers at the time and need this income to support my wife and 3 young children.

Their response was termination of employment, effective immediately, with no chance of severance, etc.

On a positive note....
I sincerely believe that everything will work out with jetBlue. Just makes it an even tougher wait. Keeping fingers and toes crossed and will continue to wait patiently.

It will be so nice to work for a company that truly cares about it's employees. One that you are able to give 110% and feel that you can really make a difference in the companies success.

End letter...

Furloughed Gal...are you still out there? Bobbysamd? Who on the board has a legal background and has experience in this type of situation? My understading is this guy had no employment contract and never signed any agreements not to look for work at other companies. Florida is an "at will employer" friendly state, but this just reeks of abuse. Anyone out there with any good ideas? (Besides the standard peeing in executive washroom sink, slashing tires, etc etc type stuff?)

You corporate types...has this every happened to you?

Thanks in advance...

 

[SWAdude]

Why on earth did this guy tell his employer that he applied to another company?? The airlines won't even call, if you don't want to, your present employer unless a position will be offered??

On another note. Sounds like grounds for a lawsuit.

SWAdude

 

[klhoard]

Notifying Employer

It sounds like he didn't tell his employer, but by Federal Law JetBlue has to collect information on his piloting background from all previous employers. No way to get around that. . .

So, who do his current employers think this guy is.. . their personal servant?? Please publish this company's name if this guys is actually terminated. It would be a great public service to all of the other pilots seeking employment to know what kind of a$$holes they are applying to.

I think I'd get this "policy" in writing from the company and then contact a labor lawyer. Sounds like a hefty settlement some lawyer would love to take on a contingency basis. . . .

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

This smells fishy on several levels. (Please read better posts below)

First, (edit) see non-compete agreement in posts below. They can be legal. If it is too binding it can be cause for suit.

Second, (edit) see wrongful termination in posts below. May or may not be grounds for lawsuit. I'm thinking were looking at wrongful termination.

Unions can be frustrating when times are good, but are awesome if you need them. Keep that in mind my JetBlue cohorts!


We need an ALPA corporate!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

ALPA corporate??

no, please, no.

 

[lowecur]

I'm not a lawyer

But I stayed at Holiday Express.

I do know insurance though, and this is a perfect "wrongful termination" lawsuit. Most major companies today buy Employment Practices Liability Insurance. It certainly doesn't hurt to search on the web, or the local yellow pages for some attorneys who practice this type of law. Most will take it on a contingency basis, therefore it costs you nothing if you lose the suit. My guess is once they receive a letter from the attorney, they will reinstate. Letting something like this go before a jury when the guy has 3 kids is a sure loss.

 

[Snakum]

I'm not an aviation attorney, nor any other kind of attorney, but I do have experience with similar incidents in another 'at will' state ... North Carolina. As a manager in various manufacturing industries in NC, I have seen people fired for less ... believe it or not. And afterward, I have sat in on meetings in which a Vice-president, and owner, or other top-level manager has defended this kind of action. Unfortunately, in an 'at will' state an employer, in any industry, can walk into work and fire you because he just had a bad morning ... and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. As long as discrimination cannot be proven (and this is more difficult than you might think), the terminated employee doesn't usually have a leg to stand on. I've heard a company attorney explain this on more than one occasion.

This kind of behavior is dispicable ... but if Florida's anything like NC ... any thought of legal action is a nonstarter.



Minh

 

[Midnight Mike]

Well think about it from the company's point of view, this pilot is only staying at the Corporate job until Jetblue calls. If I were the Corporate Carrier I would feel the same way, stay, or quit now, they gave the pilot the chance to resign.

On most applications, not sure of a pilot's application, they ask you if it is ok to contact your present employer. Usually I write down the number to somebody in the office who help me out.

As for a lawsuit, on what grounds, the fact that he was looking for employment elsewhere could be grounds for termination, plus, don't forget, at most companies "AT WILL EMPLOYMENT", escape clause for most companies to terminate your arse for any reason.

 

[Publishers]

termination

In Florida, it is an "at will" state and the employer is within his right to terminate for any reason whatsoever.

What I do not understand is what went wrong here. Jetblue should never have contacted a current employer unless it was hiring the individual. The post says that background check info was being sought. Again, no way that should have happened prior to a hiring offer.

In short, the problem here is not the company that fired him, it was the short circuit of the process from JetBlue. While immediate termination may in fact have been harsh, I certainly would not have wasted any more training dollars on the individual and would have sought a contract pilot to replace him before I terminated him.

 

[toad572]

Unfortunately, this is the way it works before a carrier offers you a position. The same thing happened to me while I was flying 135 for a company in MI. TWA ran a background check and contacted my employer. Fortunately, they spoke with a friend of mine at the company who kept it to himself. The positive note on all this is that TWA and pretty much ever other 121 carrier does not spend the money to run a background check unless they intend to offer you the job. So, as long as there aren't any skeletons in your closet, I would expect Jetblue will be calling with the good news in the near future. Congrats!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I agree.

chances are his job offer (signed) stated that he is an At Will employee. He can leave (or be asked to leave) at any time. For just about any reason.

Sure, a thousand lawyers will tell you there is a great lawsuit waiting for you, just give them 10-20K to get it rolling. Oh, and by the time it gets anywhere..that Gulfstream job and owner are long gone...and ya think that lawyer is going to give you a refund ??

It sounds like a bad deal, but I bet this guy gets the JetBlue job and can tell the $hit employer to kiss his a$$.


As far as feeling good about working somewhere and getting something for your 110% effort.....dont kid yourself folks, JetBlue will be just as nasty and lay off your a$$ in a second when bad times comes. That "warm-fuzzy" company attitude is all a JOKE.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Re: At Will Employment

"You can drive your car with your knees, but it don't make it a good fukcing idea." --Chris Rock

It just doesn't seem fair....best of luck to your friend.

 

[JohnDoe]

quote:
"As far as feeling good about working somewhere and getting something for your 110% effort.....dont kid yourself folks, JetBlue will be just as nasty and lay off your a$$ in a second when bad times comes. That "warm-fuzzy" company attitude is all a JOKE."



Bingo!!!



As somebody else said, you should post the name of the offending company.

 

[enigma]

Albie, been there done that. My case was even worse. My boss, the aviation department manager was consulted before I ever applied for another job. He promised his support, etc. However, he apparently didn't believe that I really had a chance of success. Once it became apparent to him that I did in fact have a good shot at a major, he pulled the same, "I want your resignation" thing. The funny thing about the deal is this, I wasn't hired and after the failure occured, I would have been the best employee he had. He could have asked me to was the bird every week and I'd have gladly done it. Instead, he forced my resignation and hired a retiring Army pilot. Well the retired W5 lasted far shorter than I had because he had other options and choose not to work for an abusive boss. But it all worked out in the end. I ended up with a far better job, and the retired W5 ended up with a far better job. I've got a schedule, the Warrant is in a big Challenger and the old boss is still winging around in a twenty year old obselete Lear.

regards,
enigma

 

[skirt]

quote:
"As far as feeling good about working somewhere and getting something for your 110% effort.....dont kid yourself folks, JetBlue will be just as nasty and lay off your a$$ in a second when bad times comes. That "warm-fuzzy" company attitude is all a JOKE."


Funny, JetBlue didn't lay anyone off after Sept. 11th, and times don't get much worse than that. I do hope Albie, that your client does make it safely over here, as it will be the last job interview he will ever have to do.

As for the "warm-fuzzy" attitude being a joke:

Having studied many, many corporate cultures, both inside and outside the airline industry from a practical and academic perspective, there is no doubt that culture begins with the core value structure of leadership and is multiplied in two ways 1) hiring the right people who have the right attitude 2) developing leaders from within who have the right attitude. JetBlue does a good job of both. Hiring the right pilots is so important that the even the top leadership of the company attends interviews and screens candidates. Call it "warm-fuzzy" if you want, but it is created and nurtured very carefully, and is not a joke. This has the highest priority of the leaders.

The company has gone to great lengths to foster a good culture, and is continually looking for ways to make it better. I'll bet my career on that.

Skirt

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

As far as feeling good about working somewhere and getting something for your 110% effort.....dont kid yourself folks, JetBlue will be just as nasty and lay off your a$$ in a second when bad times comes. That "warm-fuzzy" company attitude is all a JOKE.

Do a search on some of this guys posts. You'll get the feeling that he's been turned down by more majors than you can shake a stick at.

No one in aviation is 100% safe from a lay off, but a good positive corporate culture (JBLU, SWA, and others) goes a long way. Believe it or not there are places where you will be rewarded for 110% effort.

If you dont believe that G200, you're the one who's kidding yourself.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Hey, dont get me wrong, I think JetBlue is a GREAT airline. I love traveling on you. It is VERY refreshing to have employees that seem to care..I go out of my way to fly Jet Blue - even on the companys dollar. In fact, I would pay more to fly JetBlue...

but please dont tell me you guys are such freaks to think that your a$$ wont be out on the street when things go the wrong way.....do you really think that?

As far as 9/11 -- dont be so proud. If Jetblue suffered as the rest did (still are) you would be OUT. Your business model happens to appeal to the cheap flyers,and they were the ones who kept flying. Nothing more. Enjoy your time in the sun and dont think its going to last forever....

I am all for working hard and having pride in your company, but PLEASE....its a job, Wake up. They dont give 2 $hits about you when push comes to shove.....


and HOSE, read my post again. I agree 100% with what you are saying....habla???

 

[Ty Webb]

I disagree completely. Just because it as an "at will" state doesn't mean that you can fire a person because you "feel like it" or it will most definitely be seen as discriminatory, and discrimination in this case would be pretty simple. The test is "have other employees done this and not been fired?".

This case would seem to be pretty simple-

Has anyone in the company came to the company with another job offer, and been offered a raise to stay? Bet they have. Remember, we're not just talking about other pilots here, we're talking about employees, including the executives.

What I would do is have an attorney draft a letter to them, stating that he believes that this firing was discriminatory, and that in his opinion, you have recourse . . . however, in the interest of solving it in an expeditious manner, that the company reconsider . . . before you suffer further damages. . . . and that otherwise, you will be filing a lawsuit and taking depostions. That ought to let them know you're serious. Also, he should caution them not to make any disparaging remarks about you to any third parties.

That'll cost you a few hundred bucks, but to me, it would be well worth it, unless you have another job to fall into right away, in which case I would try (diplomatically) to get whatever you have coming from them, such as unpaid vacation, sick time, etc.

 

[gunner15]

Just because you make it to the second phase does not mean jetBlue will offer you the job. I made it to the second phase and had nothing in my background history and I got my DHL letter on the 7th of Jan. I had a type with 2300 hrs.on the bus, and 12,000 total with 4000 PIC and 17 yrs of 121 exp.

It was also my second interview with jetBlue.

Gunner15

 

[eaglefly]

Personally, I think you looked at this from the wrong direction.

I would have have contacted JetBlue and informed them of my current employers position ( possibly they would have already received a reply from these corporate dirtbags) .

I would have informed them that I would very much like to work for them and could the hiring process continue with accomodations made for any lack of cooperation from my current (now former) employer.

A contingent job offer (should I be successful) based on the necessary info from "Corp Scumbag Air" ?

"Corp Scumbag Air" is required to submit the necessary documentation.

If they were to refuse to submit the info or include improper defamitory info then you could bend them over WELL BEYOND 90 degrees in court.

If Corp Scumbag Air attempts to screw you on a future job, you can demonstrate loss in a courtroom and bone them in the chops (save the letter).

ANY corporation that would do this in writing has not seen the business end of an employee defamation suit yet.

Start the paper trail now though.