Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Horizon

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

suupah

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Posts
1,779
The regional lifestyle is wearin on me. I am thinking about heading west and applying at Horizon. I wanted to hear from people who went to Horizon from other regionals about the culture, lifestyle, flying and overall experience of Horizon vs their old gig.

I am talking about a career destination not a pit stop. sounds like agreat company
 
He recognized that Horizon is a regional in his post, I think he is just saying the regional life is wearing on him and would like a better alternative in the regional world which is Horizon..........correct me if I'm wrong...
 
turbinesurgeon said:
suupah said:
The regional lifestyle is wearin on me.



Horizon is a regional

I guess i should clarify. Yup, horizon is a regional...in a region that I grew up in and woudl like to return to. The regional pilot job is not in and of itself fulfilling enough.
Also from what I have heard Horizon is a much diff regional than others with pay and culture.

I just want to hear from some more people who went there after working for other regionals
 
Dont do it!! Stick out were you are until you have enough time to go to a major. They have all of the same problems and same crappy QOL as all regional carriers. A pay cut is definatly on the Horizon(no pune intended) even though current QX guys try to claim its not. Getting out of there was the best thing I ever did for my career and for my quality of life
 
suupah said:
turbinesurgeon said:
I guess i should clarify. Yup, horizon is a regional...in a region that I grew up in and woudl like to return to. The regional pilot job is not in and of itself fulfilling enough.
Also from what I have heard Horizon is a much diff regional than others with pay and culture.

I just want to hear from some more people who went there after working for other regionals

If you want to live on the west coast then its not a bad place to work as long as your not looking for a quick upgrade. I am new here but I came from another regional and so far its not bad, but they do have similar problems just like the other regionals.
 
tomba187 said:
Dont do it!! Stick out were you are until you have enough time to go to a major. They have all of the same problems and same crappy QOL as all regional carriers. A pay cut is definatly on the Horizon(no pune intended) even though current QX guys try to claim its not. Getting out of there was the best thing I ever did for my career and for my quality of life

So tell us all knowing and wise man.....why is a pay cut in our future? It is absolutely no wonder why our industry is sinking with mentalities like your own.
 
dkwid said:
So tell us all knowing and wise man.....why is a pay cut in our future? It is absolutely no wonder why our industry is sinking with mentalities like your own.

There is always somebody out there with an axe to grind. He was probably talking to one of those few pilots who are considering a small paycut to accept larger invisible aircraft on the property.
 
turbinesurgeon said:
suupah said:
If you want to live on the west coast then its not a bad place to work as long as your not looking for a quick upgrade. I am new here but I came from another regional and so far its not bad, but they do have similar problems just like the other regionals.

looks like you used to fly the 340. do you fly the dash now? How does it compare to the mighty saab
 
dkwid said:
So tell us all knowing and wise man.....why is a pay cut in our future? It is absolutely no wonder why our industry is sinking with mentalities like your own.

I personally think there are two strong reasons there will not be a pay cut at QX.

1 they are profitable so the company has no leverage to justify it as necessity.

2 they are wholly owned and as for now there is no competition for the flying. competition in the labor market is what is driving wages down.

the real solution to this problem is Keybank and other lenders cut financing for the academies.
 
mavdog said:
What was the profit for QX last quarter? ALK reported a loss, but I guess it was mostly associated with getting rid of the MD-80s at Alaska.


From the company website:

Horizon’s pretax loss for the quarter was $0.4 million, compared to income before taxes and the accounting change of $4.6 million in 2005. Excluding the mark-to-market fuel hedge adjustments, Horizon’s pretax loss was $1.6 million for the quarter, compared to $7.7 million in the first quarter of 2005.

Alaska’s pretax loss for the quarter was $124.7 million, compared to income before taxes and the accounting change of $15.4 million in 2005. Excluding the items noted below, Alaska would have reported pretax income of $7.6 million for the quarter, compared to a pretax loss of $54.9 million in the first quarter of 2005.

Alaska Air Group reported an adjusted net profit of $2.8 million for the first quarter of 2006, compared to a net loss of $41.7 million in the first quarter of 2005. The 2006 results include an impairment charge on Alaska Airlines' MD-80 fleet of $131.1 million resulting from the decision to transition to an all-Boeing 737 aircraft fleet type.
 
suupah said:
turbinesurgeon said:
looks like you used to fly the 340. do you fly the dash now? How does it compare to the mighty saab

I fly the RJ now and I really miss the Saab.
icon9.gif
 
dkwid said:
So tell us all knowing and wise man.....why is a pay cut in our future? It is absolutely no wonder why our industry is sinking with mentalities like your own.


I was at QX for over 5 years until September of 05, I am not trying to bring the industry down, nor put down QX pilots down by any means. But just to clarify, anything less than a pay raise is a pay cut, due to cost of living increases. I was there when the current contract was passed. At the time it was basically Comair + 1%. Comair had just gotten the best contract in the industry and thats what QX received as well plus a little bit more. QOL went down buy pay went up. Since then, as we all know, the industry has taken a turn for the worse, making QX's pay the highest in the regional industry. Island air makes $78/hr for a 10 year cpt on the Q400, QX $87. Jet blue 10 year Cpts make $84/hr on the EMB 190, Skywest $74/hr on the CRJ700 and QX$95 for the CRJ 700. So lets all assume that the teamsters and the pilots can either negotiate this thing for years to come, or managment agrees to extend the current contract which are the only reasonable options. If you take the 1st option, negotiating or stalling, eventually you will be either forced to settle or strike. True, you will continue to work at the same wage (so no immediate pay cut), while the cost of living goes up, so every year you will be basically losing at least 2% (hence a pay cut). You will need to continue to do this, drag the negotiations out, until another airline is ballsy enough to strike ahead of you to bring the back up at the regionals, just like Comair did in '01, or the QX pilots themselves would need to strike. The air group would let you strike, just as they were going to do in '01, however I dont think that the pilot group would be willing to strike for an extend period of time which is what it would take in order to get a pay raise. A lot of people say they would, but when it comes down to living on rice and beans and feeding your kids Top Roman, few would. The second option of managment agreeing to extend the current contract with cost of living increases will not happen, it just wont. There is no way that they will do it. You know how QX management is. They rather spend 1 Billion dollars at Ford and Harrison then pay out 500 million to the employees. They already see that the Pilots are making roughly 10-20% more than anyone else flying like equipment, and they wont make that gap bigger buy giving you a raise. I mean even QX Union agrees that the only option is try to negotiate for a long period of time and hope and pray that other carriers decrease the gap in pay. Just one man's opinion, sorry if it hurts.
 
I saw an E-190 on the ramp in PDX yesterday. I wonder if some regional airline based in the Northwest is giving that thing a look? Reminded me of a scaled down Airbus. Engine nacelles seemed close to the ground but maybe it was just the angle I was seeing it from.
 
Dave Benjamin said:
I saw an E-190 on the ramp in PDX yesterday. I wonder if some regional airline based in the Northwest is giving that thing a look?

An Alaska Airlines employee asked this question about Horizon Air's future fleet plans, and the answer by Pat Zachwieja, vice president, Marketing and Planning, was posted on alaskasworld.com today.

I've heard that Horizon Air is looking to add the EMB190 aircraft to its fleet. How does this aircraft fit into the plan?

Pat Zachwieja:Horizon is indeed looking at the EMB190 aircraft, as well as the CRJ-900 and other aircraft that may be candidates for growth aircraft in support of our long-term Alaska Air Group strategic plan.


The Alaska and Horizon planning teams work jointly in this planning process, and we make it our business to be up on the details of all aircraft types for this purpose. As a result, we're continually in the loop with (and being pitched by) all aircraft manufacturers, including Embraer. However, that said, we're still quite a ways from making a decision on this, or any other type of new aircraft.

Fleet and market planning for Air Group is a collaborative process between Alaska and Horizon and an extension of the "harmonization" initiatives that have proved fruitful for both companies. Recommendations stem from a thorough analysis of many things, including current fleet compositions, existing market performance and future market opportunity, competitive and economic assumptions, etc. From there, the planning teams further refine the fleet plans in an effort to identify what we'll need that we currently don't have if we're to capitalize on the opportunities.

During this stage, the planning groups are looking to match each market opportunity to the optimal aircraft/schedule solution and also to determine if Alaska or Horizon have the right aircraft in the fleet, or not. Over the years, this process has led us to consider adding 737-800s to the Alaska fleet and more Q400s to the Horizon fleet.

We will continue to evaluate new categories of airplanes as market and competitive conditions determine. Our goal, which we've remained consistent with, is to make fleet decisions that provide long-term profitable growth for both companies, and not to grow one company at the expense of the other.

But if the 190 at PDX had anything to do with Horizon, then Gene H. has the best poker face in the business. He was in the SEA crew room last night and someone mentioned seeing the 190 in Embraer colors in PDX. He claimed not to know anything about it.
 
n25na said:
not one cent

Agreed!

n25a said:
no paycuts for larger airplanes

Agreed!

turbinesurgeon said:
Partial pay to the last day.

Agreed!

I think the company's opener was just a way to lower expectations. Let's not let it work. I, for one, could use a raise, what with gas at $3/gallon.

I assume our MEC's opener will ask for raises and work rule improvements. We are, after all, profitable and productive.
 
ReverseSensing said:
Agreed!



Agreed!



Agreed!

I think the company's opener was just a way to lower expectations. Let's not let it work. I, for one, could use a raise, what with gas at $3/gallon.

I assume our MEC's opener will ask for raises and work rule improvements. We are, after all, profitable and productive.

I would like to be able feed and take care of my family. I am not sure how many more sacrifices I am willing to take for this job. I can't stand to sit by and watch the rich get richer and the pilots get poorer. If I wanted to work for Mesa wages I would apply to Mesa. The big problem I see for us is the pay gap between us and the other regional that are spiraling down.
 
Why would they choose the E190 over the CRJ900? I would think with an all Bombardier fleet they wouldn't want to change that.
 
JetSpeed219 said:
Why would they choose the E190 over the CRJ900? I would think with an all Bombardier fleet they wouldn't want to change that.

You may have inadvertently answered your own question. ;)

But seriously, as another thread covered recently, I don't think QX is in imminent danger of buying anything anytime soon but more new (and probably used) Q400's. We're all about investing in 50's turboprop technology!
 
For the Horizon guys and gals on the board, "Thank you, for all the rides home." Great pilots and station agents.
 
ReverseSensing said:
We're all about investing in 50's turboprop technology!

You say it like it's a bad thing. Oh, and I don't think the ANVS and six bladed props with FADEC, etc., etc...is 50's technology. The only reason we are even close to making money is our crappy turboprops.:rolleyes:
 
The Dash 8 is one of the most advanced aircraft currently manufactered<sp?>. I also think that with fuel as high as it is and the fact that airlines can not continue to operate RJ's on 37min stage lengths that turbo props will make a come back at more and more regionals.
 
QCappy said:
You say it like it's a bad thing.
Nah, not really. It is what it is. More like going for the cheap giggle, even though it's not how I really feel. I did like that Q400 movie poster that was on the Teamsters site a while back: "Summer 2006 -- Party Like It's 1959."

Let's hope P&W has its problems worked out and that the parts stream from Bombardier doesn't cause a repeat of the summer from hell that was last year. (ANVS: is that the thing with the yellow sticker and the three collared circuit breakers? :laugh:)

Obviously the Q400 is no Convair, but you have to admit QX is either bucking the tide or setting the trend, depending upon your perspective on, and experience with, the Q400.

By the way, isn't someone out there making money with jets? ;) Granted, probably not on 37 minute stage lengths.
 
Last edited:
I heard some rumblings about bad blood between Bombardier and Horizon... Anyone else?
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom