Holy cow!

[Typhoon1244]

Ever had one of those days where you wished you'd looked a little more carefully at that performace planning your F/O was doing?

Picture

 

[avbug]

Looks like one of our typical takeoffs, except that he has runway remaining before his wheels come off the deck. Sometimes we leave it behind before getting wings.

 

[Boomhauer]

I've seen that pic before, field is somewhere in China, IIRC, real hot-n-high nasty b!tch.

 

[acaTerry]

Blame the CA for not checking either. But hey, it was Aeroflot...need I say more?

 

[banned username 2]

Looks like one of our typical takeoffs, except that he has runway remaining before his wheels come off the deck. Sometimes we leave it behind before getting wings.

And this is something to be proud of?

 

[Citationkid]

Bettter hope he wasn't landing.

 

[avbug]

And this is something to be proud of?

Yes, actually, it is. But even if it weren't, it's part of what we do. It's the nature of the job. Once we get off the ground, we're looking at a max rate of climb in the 100 fpm range, too. We have a heavy load to take to the fire. It's not always like that, but if we refused to fly due to thunderstorms, downloaded until we climbed like the rest of the world, didn't fly in high winds and extreme turbulence, didn't operate from short remote airfields, and didn't work in box canyons, it would be hard to draw a paycheck as we'd be sitting on the ramp tossing paper airplanes.

 

[banned username 2]

it would be hard to draw a paycheck as we'd be sitting on the ramp tossing paper airplanes.

Yeah, but you'd be alive...

Sorry, might just be my twisted perception of reality (and my 2 kids and wife) but no flying job anywhere is worth risking my life, the life of my crew or the aircraft.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

100fpm?

F that, let the stupid fire burn, its nature.

What are ya protecting in the wilderness? a hippie mountain man who wont leave his cabin?

You guys must just be serious adrenaline junkies!

 

[Paladin]

The photo is actually taken in Phuket, Thailand. There's another shot somewhere in the database that is taken about 1 second before the plane gets airborne...crazy stuff.
Cheers,
Markus

 

[Jump Pilot]

Phuket?

Giggle!

 

[Chunk]

ah phuket....not as exciting as utaphao, but still, on a whole, better than Toledo or Tulsa!

 

[350DRIVER]

Yes, actually, it is. But even if it weren't, it's part of what we do. It's the nature of the job. Once we get off the ground, we're looking at a max rate of climb in the 100 fpm range, too. We have a heavy load to take to the fire. It's not always like that, but if we refused to fly due to thunderstorms, downloaded until we climbed like the rest of the world, didn't fly in high winds and extreme turbulence, didn't operate from short remote airfields, and didn't work in box canyons, it would be hard to draw a paycheck as we'd be sitting on the ramp tossing paper airplanes.

I think that avbug's experience, expertise, knowledge, etc, would allow him to do this time after time without worrying about not living to tell about it. He may possibly have to remove the blindfolds every so often though. - I am pretty sure he knows exactly what he can/cannot get away with and I would be very hard pressed to question someone of his nature.

3 5 0

 

[avbug]

Flying fire isn't for everyone. It's a different world, a working world. Because one doesn't understand it doesn't mean it's not a responsible profession. There's a T-shirt in the industry that says, "I fight what you fear." In a sense, that sums it up, but it doesn't mean it's irresponsible or foolhardy.

We fly heavily loaded airplanes into confined spaces in high winds and weather, often in severe and occasionally extreme turbulence, in close proximity to steep terrain at high density altitudes. The aircraft are performance limited due to the loading and conditions.

You say let the fire burn, but it's not your home burning, nor is it your brother huddled under the fire shelter waiting for relief. You may find it frivilous work. Having worked it on the ground and in the air in most of the positions available in the fire industry, I'd disagree. But then perhaps my viewpoint is misinformed.

My primary function is initial attack. That means minimal response time in an effort to stop the fire as early as possible. A fire stopped at 1/10 of an acre and two trees is far better and far less expensive, and far less risky to life than a fire which is allowed to burn where it will and what it will. I've worked several fires this year in which homes and properties were lost and lives threatened. You might feel differently had one of them been yours.

Unfortunately we don't get to choose when a fire starts, where it burns, and often many of the circumstances under which we fight it. Fires tend to burn when it's hot. We often fight them at higher density altitudes, limiting our performance. By necessity we must work the fires close to the ground, and often in high terrain, often in very reduced visibility, and we don't get a choice in where that is, or the conditions.

The fires are usually wind driven; it's part of the mechanism of spread. Rarely are conditions calm. Severe turbulence, large windshears, etc, are typical.

You may have two kids and that may exempt you or cause you to say "no way." That's fine, and it's your right. I have four kids, and I fly professionally in order to spend time with them again. Rest assured I'm every bit as professional as you. Some scenes are never safe. I've played other roles; sometimes high in the flight levels, often down low, too. I'm a firefighter at heart, and yes, there are risks to what I do. Mitigating them is part of being professional. I don't suppose you'd be castigating your local FD or PD for doing their job...don't worry about me doing mine.

It's not at all about adrenaline. If it's exciting, you're probably doing it wrong.

A hippie in his cabin has every bit as much right to protection of life and property as a celebrity in a multi million dollar mansion. I don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** about social standing; everybody gets equal treatment and my best effort. That goes for every soul on the fireground, especially those working the line on the ground, who do the real work.

The point before was that rotating at the end isn't unusual a sight. Refusal speed is also often the speed at which we take the runway...because once the takeoff starts, it's not stopping. I've seen DC-4's and other gear rotate at the end, sucking clods of dirt out of the ground and tossing it twenty feet in the air just from the vortices. Making turns after takeoff to avoid antennaes, powerlines, and other aerials isn't uncommon; going around them is necessary because one isn't going over them.

It looks unusual, but believe me, it could be a lot worse.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I guess I just dont understand.....like when 6 firefighters die saving an empty warehouse....? (just an example)

You say I might think diffrently if it was my house?...

Nope, Id pack up everything I could (namely my family and pets) and get the FUK out. I have insurance and its just a F'n house. Let the prik burn to the ground. When they say "evacuate" - Im outta there..

I also would not want you risking your life for me. Somehow I just dont think you guys are in it for us homeowners....



SAFE flying to you!

 

[acaTerry]

All I have to say about Fire Pilots is that you got more balls than I do!! Gentle airliners for me any day!

 

[Typhoon1244]

So what if they had to abort? Do they just accept the fact that they're going off the end in a stoic, Russian way?

 

[Jump Pilot]

So Gulfstream 200, if I understand you correctly, if your house was burning you'd get everbody out and say "Phuket"?

Get it?

 

[mar]

Typhoon, you got it wrong.

Ever flown with a Russian? I've known a few.

Typhoon you're thinking of Scandinavian/Nordic types as the stoic ones. The Russians on the other hand, um, how do I put this?

Well, it's like the Koreans.

What I mean to say is, sometimes--

Hey Avbug! Thanks for reminding the board that not every flying job worth having includes a clean modern plane with checklists that cover every possible situation.

Sometimes you just gotta hang it out to have a little fun.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

so how was it flying with Russians?