Highlight of AA/APA SCOPE Agreement

[DBacks]

Fresh from the Eagle Kool-Aid page. Either way, looks like its curtains for the careers of junior and mid-range Eagle pilots.


HIGHLIGHTS OF THE AA/APA SCOPE, CRJ-700, SUPPLEMENT W/LETTER 3
TENTATIVE AGREEMENT

1. Commuter Carrier Limitations

Maximum Number

The maximum number of Commuter Carrier Aircraft that can be operated on behalf of AA is 110% of the AA narrowbody (single-aisle) fleet. At the lower point, the AA narrowbody fleet is expected to be 599 aircraft. Aircraft counts to establish compliance will be held every six months beginning 7/1/03.

Commuter Carriers that are AA affiliates or that have more than 50% of their flying performed on the AA Company code are counted on a one-for-one basis.

Commuter carriers that are not affiliates and have less than 50% of their flying on the AA Company code will be pro-rated one of two ways. American Connection (or someone else with a uniquely identified marketed by American) carrier aircraft connecting to the AA network will be counted on a 1 for one basis. Other carriers will be pro-rated.

Aircraft Type

Commuter carrier aircraft are noe defined as aircraft certificated with 50 seats or less and gross take-off weight certificated at 64,600 lbs. or less.

ATR-72 Exception:
American Eagle and/or Executive may operate no more than 43 ATR-72s or other similar turboprop aircraft with a certificated seat range of 51 to 70 seats.

CRJ-700:
AA and APA have agreed to negotiate in good faith to find a way to move the current and future Eagle CRJ-700s to the AA operating certificate. This negotiated outcome must be cost neutral for all labor costs under all labor agreements.

If an agreement is reached on these cost-neutral terms, AA and Eagle will have one year to accomplish the move from one certificate to the other. If no agreement is reached, an exception is granted that allows Eagle to continue to operate the CRJ-700 on the Eagle operating certificate pending resolution of the issue.

2. Furloughed AA pilots

Master Shuffle

AA will identify all pilots they expect will be furloughed. Those pilots will be afforded the opportunity to bid for Eagle opportunities through a Master Shuffle.

Pilots will be awarded their bid preference based on seniority. Eagle will train only those who are successfully awarded a bid. Training may occur out of seniority order in the event there is an overage in equipment at AA

CRJ Displacement and Recall

Following the Master Shuffle and AA furlough, furloughed AA pilots can displace into CRJ Captain positions in accordance with the provisions of Supp. W/Letter 3. No "CJ Rights" Captain (also known as Eagle Rights) may be displaced from the CRJ-700 by a furloughed AA pilot. Eagle CRJ pilots who are displaced by a furloughed AA pilot may exercise Eagle seniority to displace within Eagle.

All furluoghed AA pilots will be eligible for recall into CRJ Captain positions previously held by AA furloughed pilots. AA furloughed pilots shall occupy CRJ Captain positions at Eagle as long as there are furloughed AA pilots

ERJ Recall

APA has waived the displacement rights for furloughed AA pilots into the ERJ under Supp. W/Letter 3. As additional ERJ Captain positions occur, due to aircraft being added to the Eagle ERJ fleet
that result in a net increase to the total Eagle fleet, furloughed AA pilots shall be recalled into the newly-created Captain positions created by the acceptance incremental aircraft.

Furloughed AA pilots are not eligible for recall into the ERJ Captain positions that occur for any reason other than ERJ aircraft deliveries which are incremental to the Eagle fleet. AA pilots will have recall rights to an ERJ Captain position that has previously been held by a furloughed AA pilot.

Training Lock-in

After being trained on a CRJ or ERJ at Eagle, furloughed AA pilots can not be recalled to AA for a period of 2 years. Recall to AA may occur out of seniority order as a result of the training lock-in.

Following satisfactory completion of the training lock-in, upon recall, AA pilots can not exit Eagle at a rate of more than 20 pilots per month.

3. Eagle Pilots

Eagle CRJ and ERJ Captains are subject to displacement in accordance with Letter 3. However, APA waives the right to displace any ERJ Captain and retains the right of recall to any vacant CRJ Captain position.

Additionally, APA waives the Supp. W right for recall to any vacant ERJ Captain position and agrees that furloughed AA pilots may be recalled to only those ERJ positions that are created as a result of incremental ERJ aircraft at Eagle. Incremental aircraft are defined as those that result in a net increase to the Eagle fleet and create the need for an additional ERJ Captain.

As a practical matter, Eagle would need to recall/hire FOs in order for there to be incremental aircraft deliveries.

Eagle pilots can bid for and be awarded ERJ Captain positions that are associated with non-incremental Eagle aircraft deliveries. Non-incremental Eagle aircraft deliveries are those
that do not require an increase in active Eagle pilots. For example, if Eagle is displacing Saab pilots because of reduced Saab flying while adding ERJ aircraft and Eagle's active pilot
requirements do not increase (i.e. recall or new hire FOs), there are no incremental aircraft deliveries. Bid awards in those cases will be based on relative Eagle seniority.

Eagle pilots will be eligible to bid for and be awarded ERJ Captain positions that occur as a result of Eagle pilot attrition.

Eagle CRJ Captains who have elected "Eagle Rights" status can not be subject to displacement by a furluoghed AA pilot.

No Eagle ERJ Captain can be subject to displacement from a furloughed AA pilot. However,

Eagle ERJ Captains may be displaced by any other Eagle pilot (including displaced CRJ Captains) subject to the seniority provisions of the Eagle/ALPA agreement.

 

[flaps30]

remind me

why supporting the RJDC is so bad ?

 

[General Lee]

Flaps30,

Delta owns all of your RJ's, and any future ones. They can do whatever they want. IF they think they can save some sheckles by giving some furloughed pilots some jobs at the same rates as yours---they will do it. Fred Reid and Joe Kolshack (VP of Flt Ops) said today in Dallas that they could see our furloughs flying the future 70 seaters and higher---at the right price. With the job market the way it is today, and the eventual growth by Delta in the future (after this is all over with)---Dalpa would be crazy not to buy into this. Getting future 70 seaters (I believe they said they have ordered more than the 57 allotted to DCI---so there they are....) will get pilots back into the cockpit--waiting for more retirements. (I read there will be 1500 retirements within the next 5 years) Management knows that they want more 70 and maybe some 90 seaters, and they know where the road leads--Dalpa.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[flaps30]

sure

key words "right price". wanna work for regional pay ? Welcome aboard.

 

[rjcap]

Mainline pilots working for regional pay.

The future is soooo bright.

 

[General Lee]

RJCAP and Flaps30,

What else can the furloughs do right now? How's the job market? Got any hot tips? A friend of mine was having a hard time finding a construction job in Atlanta. He knows he will be back at Delta eventually, but in the mean time would love to fly as a Capt on a 70 seat RJ. What else can we do? Comair said no to letting the furloughs go to the bottom of their list, flying crappy standups while everyone else moved up. But no. Lawson said no. ASA was nice enough to hire 13 of our pilots, and that is good enough---they will eventually get something in return. Had the Comair MEC welcomed our pilots with open arms, this might have been averted. Delta can do anything they want with the RJ's---and I would bet that something will be done between Dalpa and Delta---that is if Delta wants some sort of pay cuts. And, I think they might.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Rick1128]

Ask the guys at United about Super Senority. If you are going to do it, merge all the lists fairly and go from there.

I can understand the anger of the Eagle guys. Put yourself in their place. You have worked your butt off and made RJ capt and have been with the company 15 years. Like your company and your job. You get displaced into an ATR or to RJ FO by a AA pilot who has been with AA for only 5 years. The cockpits at Eagle are going to be interesting places for the next few years.

 

[rjcap]

that is if Delta wants some sort of pay cuts. And, I think they might.

Leo will get his pay cuts. One way or another. With or without the mainline pilots approval.
Look at it this way. Leo and his subordinates have already funded their pensions and placed them into trusts. He therefore has no real personal financial obstacle to pursuing Chapter 11 proceedings to restructure the company.


Mainline pilots flying RJ's.

I guess that will give a whole new meaning to the term

"Furlough Jet."

 

[cl65@350]

Delta Deliveries

Just got my annual report today:

A/C delivery schedule as of 12/31/02

2003
CRJ 100/200 31
CRJ 700 20

2004
CRJ 100/200 0
CRJ 700 23

OPTIONS
2004
CRJ 100/200 27
CRJ 700 5

2005
CRJ 100/200 38
CRJ 700 30

2006
CRJ100/200 33
CRJ 700 30

AFTER 2006
CRJ 100/200 99
CRJ 700 100



as far as regional wages go....how much is a comair/asa captain that has enough seniority to hold crj700 left seat making? How about the F.O?

I would guess the combined pay would be over 100/hr

I bet there are furloughed delta guys that would be happy making 60 plus in the left seat and 40 plus in the right...at least for three or four years until recall? maybe not i dont know...

Delta is paying into retirement longevity anyways and the pilots are paying cobra so why not bring em back and make them productive?

 

[General Lee]

That's right, why not bring them back? Because the RJDC is scared that will stunt their growth, even though their growth has exploded thanks to the shrinking of Delta. It might be a few years until everyone comes back, and in the mean time Delta may want more 70 seat RJ's---and they have willing pilots who would fly them---at the right price because there is no work out there for Delta furloughs especially----since most employers know those pilots will be back at Delta eventually. Is RJ Capt pay or FO pay better than unemployment pay? Ummm yes.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[surplus1]

Looks like AA pilots are getting to be pretty good at stealing jobs and seniority from the AE pilots.

I have some questions about how that is going to work.

1. AMR can decide to cease CL-700 operations at Eagle. AMR can also decide to place CL-700s on the AA certificate, which would mean that AA pilots will fly them. So I guess that theft of those jobs from the Eagle pilots can work. Is there anything in the Eagle contract that would require Eagle pilots to go with the aircraft if the current CL-700s are transferred from AE to AA?

2. How is AMR going to place AA pilots into captain positions on the AE seniority list without the consent of the AE pilots?

3. If that consent is required, do you expect the AE pilots to give it?

Comment - It sure is rotten when one pilot group deliberately sets out to steal jobs and seniority from another pilot group. Isn't that what a SCAB does? I know there's no picket line at Eagle, but it seems to me that's the ONLY difference.

 

[surplus1]

General,

How much are you Delta guys willing to undercut (underbid) the Comair pilots by in your effort to get our CL65-700s?

 

[pilot141]

surplus (of posts, apparently, and nothing else), I hope you enjoy your fantasy world.

Yeah, us AA pilots are getting REALLY good at stealing AE jobs. That's why we have to have Ch 11 hung over our heads in order to get a few more jobs. We give up $660 million/year while knowing that AE is buying RJs and we are parking mainline jets. Those few CL-700 left seats are certainly worth 2500 furloughs.

The bottom line is that AMR is using AE to leverage the APA. Big surprise. I'm voting no on the TA, but if I get a CL-700 left seat I'll take it, and if you call me a scab for doing it we're going to have words in the parking lot. Be careful when you start throwing out terms like that. You WILL live to regeret it.

 

[flaps30]

pilot141, whats your point ?

Do you think you have some right to steal an AE job. Oh you were military so... like your Delta brothers you can step on whomever when things aren't so good. I also think your one step from a scab.

 

[rjcap]

How much are you Delta guys willing to undercut (underbid) the Comair pilots by in your effort to get our CL65-700s?

Fuel for the fire.

Skip Barnette is on record as unwilling to pay our ramp operation employees another $1 or $2 per hour to minimize employee turnover. Considering that ASA just scored 15 out of 16 in the DOT on time departures and that our ramp ops turnover is in excess of 50% you might ask yourself what kind of paycut will be required for RJ's to make there way over to mainline.

The only way I see mainline pilots flying RJ's is if they accept the work rules and pay rates of either ASA or Comair.

Are you willing to go that low ???

 

[wil]

Just a nutty idea- But, what if Delta, Comair and ASA all join hands and we require all flying to be done by us. No contract carriers at all. Wouldn't there be enough flying t go around and no need to furlough? Ok, I'll put down the crack pipe. Comments, come in General Lee-

 

[General Lee]

RJCAP, Surplus1, Flaps30,

Well, I told you so. Man, if Lawson had just welcomed the furloughs with open arms(like a big daddy) this might have been avoided. But no. Dalpa is negotiating to help our furloughs, since Comair and their MEC chair wouldn't. Obviously AA can do whatever they want with their 70 seaters----and I am sure Delta could do the same. Would you call "repostioning" pilots scabs? No way. You don't have those planes yet. What about you all taking the routes that we used to fly and flying RJ's on them? Oh no, you will say, Delta chose to do that. Well, Delta can choose to do a lot of things. They own the planes. Thanks Lawson.

Wil,

Too late. I do think the ASA guys did a good thing for hiring some of our pilots, and they will be rewarded somehow---much much more than Comair. This will not be forgotten. Delta owns the planes, and they can choose to do whatever they want, and if Dalpa happens to be whispering into their ears, oh well. It is their choice. Will the rates be close to Comair's? Probably. Will Delta get a better deal on the CRJ70 if a 3-4 year (total at Delta) Capt flying the CRJ70 instead of a 13 year Capt at Comair and ASA? Yes. Is that a cost advantage for Delta? Yes. Are there furloughed Delta flight attendants that would also come back? Yes. Are they looking into this closely? Yes. Does Dalpa want to get furloughed pilots off the street and get much needed dues back into their coffers, at the same time lowering the Cobra payments to the other 8100 Delta pilots? Yes. Will there be mass retirements soon at Delta (maybe May 1st) allowing movement and could Delta be looking at expansion with a possible Asian routes purchase from tanking UAL? Yes.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[pilot141]

flaps30 I never said I thought I had a right to steal an Eagle job. What I said was that in this TA we give up pay, work rules and 2500 jobs and the only "upside" is that a few guys will be offered 70-seat captain jobs as Eagle grows. None of these jobs can cause an Eagle furlough; they are only available when Eagle buys a new jet and puts it into service.

As for my supposed "military attitude" and being "one step from a scab" - bite me. I'm pissed at the way AMR leveraged the unions with the threat of Ch 11 to get a 6-year dog of a contract. The "benefit" of a few left seats at Eagle is only available if the TA passes. I mentioned before that I voted against the TA. So I'm voting NO on a proposal that would give some guys a chance to go to new Eagle jets. I think the TA gives back too much, and I'm willing to stare down Carty right into Ch 11.

How exactly does this make me "one step from a scab"?

 

[rjcap]

Well, Delta can choose to do a lot of things. They own the planes.

You are correct General Lee. Delta, or more specifically Leo, will do exactly what he wants with both the RJ's and the mainline narrow body aircraft.

I'm just not quite clear on what the economic benefit is to crew the RJ's with mainline pilots whose pay and total compensation package are 200% to 300% more than ASA/Comair.

Regarding Comair, they can do whatever they want. They don't owe you anything.

 

[General Lee]

RJCAP,

You are absolutely correct. Leo can do anything they want. And, the only way we could sell this to him is to be at Comair's rates---probably with the same benefits. What you ask? But, why? The only difference would be that our furloughs would have recall rights at Delta. (They probably also would have CREDIT in years of service towards their retirement---you need 25 total years at Delta to receive full retirement) The wages would be about the same, and actually Delta would be getting a deal with our pilots--because the Comair and ASA pilots flying those planes would be making more--due to the fact that they have been at ASA/Comair for more years total. The costs to establish a separate DCI carrier would be offset by the less total costs of the Capt's pay compared to Comair/ASA. One of our furloughs, let's say he had 4 years with Delta, would be paid --maybe $65 an hour on the 70 seater, and maybe $80 an hour on the 90 seater. Your guys would be paid in the $100's.

As far as the Comair pilots---well besides our help(along with others at ALPA) with $$$ during their unsuccessful strike----you're right, they don't OWE us anything. They are free not to hire our furloughs if they choose. We will return the favor---and things will eventually turn around like they always do. Delta is stronger than most, and there will be pay cuts from our pilots in some form. We will not forget. And, snotty ASA Capt's like yourself will also be weeded out if you try to interview.

Bye Bye--General Lee