High School To The Airlines - Roadmap

[instructordude]

I love flying period. It shouldn't be about the money, unfortunately it seems like it has. I just got pounded on the major board for only saying that half of a Delta pilot salary is nice. Keep the dream up guys!

 

[pilotyip]

Hang in there instructordude you got the right attitude you will make it. Fly because you like to and this is a great career. I am still living my dream from 5 yrs old, 58 yrs later.

 

[Regul8r]

If I may offer some advice

I love flying period. It shouldn't be about the money, unfortunately it seems like it has. I just got pounded on the major board for only saying that half of a Delta pilot salary is nice. Keep the dream up guys!

If you're not supposed to mow another man's lawn, stay out of his yard. That being said - I agree to a degree with you. I love flying too and we wouldn't have to worry about the money in a perfect world. Unfortunately the cold hard reality is that it is not about the flying, it's about the retirement. As UndauntedFlyer pointed out on another post (and I did read a similar article in the newspaper yesterday) you need a HUGE nest egg just to live comfortably after you retire. We're talking on the order of 2-3 million saved up IF you plan to have a conventional retirement and not work after 60. Crunch the numbers on that for $50,000 a year for 30 years and you don't even come close to what you need. There are no more retirement plans anymore, it is up to you alone to save for it. So unfortunately it does come down to money and money alone. While I like YIP's positive attitude, to a large degree it all boils down to the $$$. Keep the white side up!

 

[pilotyip]

Regul8r, I also agree it is all about money. I have turned down flying jobs in the past because you just could not live on the pay. But what is enought is where the difference comes from. I am shooting for 80% of my present income when I retire and I should be able to do that. A cobo of military retirement, SSN and investments made since 1984. This number is well below what many people consider adequate, but since I can't hold a job I have always tried to live below my means.

 

[GreazerGriff7]

my journey

just to shed some light on what I did...maybe it will help other youngsters like myself.

I made sure to take as many accelerated and Advanced Placement courses in high School, and had enough credits by the end of the first Semester of my Senior year to graduate early. I was actually a few credits short but I worked it out with the school board and principle to allow me to take an online Spanish class through a University, which took place of those credits I was missing.

I already had my private that I worked on throughout highschool since I turned 16..So the best option for me was ATP (www.allatps.com). Started the 90-day program in January..while the rest of my classmates were starting the second semester of their senior year. Finished up with ATP and all my ratings by the end of April, then came back to my hometown to walk with my class in graduation and go to mexico on my senior trip. When I got back from the trip I had a couple days to get out to Florida to begin instructing for ATP.

I instructed at ATP throughout the summer and fall...and was hired at a Regional Airline in December..just 7 months after my "official" high school graduation date.

I enrolled at Utah Valley State shortly after I was hired at ATP..and they gave me credit for all my ratings. I am almost half way through having my degree in Aviation Science.. Although I pretty much agree with everyone that an Aviation Science degree is completely useless out of aviation (and even within aviation), it is still a neccessity to be able to check the "degree" box on a major airline or corporate operator application.

Looking back on it, I dont think there is a quicker way to go from having your Private to the right seat in an RJ. Am I as experienced as someone who flew freight for a couple years before the airlines? No, probably not..however I do believe that instructing in an environment such as ATP was very beneficial. Will I be as "educated" as some of my buddies that are currently attendending a real college? Probably not.. but then again they do spend quite a bit of time burning their brain cells from the college lifestyle.

I feel like the airline career is all about Seniority.. so the quicker you get there, the quicker you can get on that list.

Hope this helped some of you wanting to get into this career..if I can be any help feel free to PM me or reply.

 

[JSky26]

Greazer,

Sounds like you made it pretty quick, but why the rush, I'm curious? You will be flying jets for the next 40 years!

I thought of going that route but I decided to go to a state school with a collegiate aviation program. College, is not only for the degree, but for the experience it offers. I go to school with about 200 aviation students, but also 20,000 other undergrads. It's great to get away from aviation at times and enjoy the "other side" of life. I think too many people forget to stop and take a breath! I don't know if I could survive going to a school like Embry-Riddle with aviation geekdom around me 24/7!
Don't get me wrong, I work hard with my aviation stuff and will be flight instrucing my last few semesters down here while finishing up school. I might not have that regional job lined up immediately after school, but like I said before I'm in no rush, and I do realize that college is a big player on the maturation process.

Killing brain cells is just part of the game my man...haha

Good Luck to everyone.

 

[GreazerGriff7]

JSky,

that was the major decision I had to make.. College Experience or Job Experience.. I chose the latter..others may feel different. Sure, sometimes I feel like I'm missing out on the whole college lifestyle.. but I'm perfectly satisfied living it through my friends and the week or so a month I visit them.

And you ask why the rush? Thats just personal preference for me... I'd be bored to death sitting on my @ss 4-6 hours out of the day in a lecture hall learning about English poetry (or even some aviation degree BS) and living in a dorm with some dude..even if I can party with a bunch of hot college broads nightly. But thats me..and I HATE SCHOOL.

I'm not knocking college and the experiences it offers.. but I feel like the traditional route is not entirely necessary for an airline career.

 

[MDAutry]

I agree with you both... It is about what you want out of life. If it is your goal to sit in an RJ and nap for 4 hours a day or if it is your goal to sit in a psych class and nap for 4 hours then thats your deal. However, I am building time right now and I think a lot about enjoying every day I fly...

 

[FlyBieWire]

This is a great thread for information. My high school guidance counselor is clueless on all of this. She tells me that I need all kinds of advanced math and science. I made a "B" in Algebra and she said I should just about give up all hope of becoming a pilot.

I think I like the college idea as UndauntedFlyer and others have suggested.

 

[mhcasey]

I certainly don't have the wisdom of some of the guys on this board (not sure if you looked at Undaunted's profile), but here is what I've concluded as a college sophomore at UT majoring in Philosophy. Bare with me, this could be a long one...

I should have gone to OU, Purdue, or some other college where I could get a non-aviation degree, but probably double in Aviation with transfer credits from getting ratings and training. Why?

First, Austin is not a good place for general aviation. There are not many places for training (thanks to Michael Dell), and while I know I can and will find good instructors, I'll be driving at least 30 minutes both ways for the rest of my training. Things might still work out for me here...I'm trying to get a job handling bags for SW or some other odd job for the FBO's out here.

Second, it's not as hard to double major as you'd think, depending on what you decide to do. I'm also in a very distinguished program specific to UT called "Plan II Honors." I won't go into details, but it is a "well rounded" degree in itself, with a bit more liberal arts than math or sciences. I ended up adding the Philosophy degree because Plan II required 9 hours of philosophy anyway, so I was already pretty well on my way. I have a lot of random hours that won't apply towards anything except elective hours, but I'll still be able to easily graduate in 3 years with degrees in Plan II Honors, Philosophy, and minor in history (with the option to take 1 more class in English, Rhetoric, Spanish, and I think several other areas to have minors in those also).

I could graduate in 3 years with no problem, but I'm going to stretch it out while I get my aviation training, and have Dad's health insurance and free flying (he flies for AA) for another few years. How am I already so close to finishing? AP CLASSES!!! Take as many as you can, and study for the exams. I say again, STUDY FOR AP EXAMS!!! Once more, STUDY FOR AP EXAMS!!! I got a decent bit of credit from AP exams, but could have had tons more had I actually studied for them (I'd say I studied about 1 hour a month in high school, 1 hour total for all of my AP exams). Be sure to do well especially on the Latin AP, or any other language AP, because most colleges, if they require a language, make you go to class 5 days a week for that language. 5 days a week for any class is horrible, so just test out of it. Don't even worry about what your respective college will take for AP credit. Just study hard for everything. Maybe you'll end up transferring, or changing majors, and all of those random AP credit hours will help.

Stay in those organizations you're in in high school. I quit debate my junior year because I didn't have time between playing in 5 bands and on 2 hockey teams. I don't really regret it, but I wish there was a way I could have continued debate. Fortunately, philosophy is the same thing but better, so take a few philosophy courses in college. Keep up with the math. High school algebra is ultra lame compared to college math, or even calculus, so don't worry about your goofball algebra teacher. I loved calculus in high school, but even it seems boring having tasted some of the "more exciting" areas of math like number theory and non-euclidean geometry.

If you've got time, get your PPL and anything else you can do before college, or really just ASAP. If you feel like you're falling behind, take a summer to knock out your instrument, or get some aerobatic training. When you get to college, DO NOT COMMIT TO A 1 YEAR LEASE!!! I'll be finishing up my PPL soon and would kill to get out of my lease (goes through summer) to go home, live for free, and get my instrument at any of the fantastic FBO's in DFW. Since I'm stuck with a summer lease, I have to stay here, take summer classes, and drive to Georgetown (a nightmare) several times a week to do training up there. Keep summers open for cool things. Even if it's not flying, go study abroad or get an internship someplace. Taking classes is a lame way to spend a summer, especially when you're a senior going into your third year.

When you get to school, if you have any inclination whatsoever, try out an engineering program. Almost any other major will be a waste of your time, unless you like paying tons of money to get an education you could have gotten for 3.50 in late fees at the public library. Alright, that's a bit harsh, but most of my classes have "followed the textbook" pretty closely, and I've wondered why I am there. Do not take history classes in college unless you have to. If the topic interests you, find out what textbook they use, and rent it from the library. Stick to technical areas and you will be rewarded with an education that will be difficult to teach yourself. Major in liberal arts and waste time reading books you could have read for enjoyment and without deadlines. Major in business and learn common sense while doing group projects with a bunch of idiots. Major in "commuications" and learn nothing. Major in the social sciences (a branch of liberal arts I guess?) and learn how to B.S., or just do that in your other classes when you have papers due.

Apply for scholarships. There are millions out there. Tons don't even get claimed. You can apply for many as early as your junior year, so don't waste time.

I think that's about it. I have my thoughts on how things will pan out, but in regards to specific hirings, check the "interviews" forum and ask some of these guys that have been around for what you need to do to get hired. I hope my thoughts will help you make the best choices in getting started.

To summarize: Go to a cool college that has good aviation nearby (I've gotten the impression from other threads that training through the schools part 121 is typically a bit pricey, so look for schools with good FBO's nearby and take from them...if I had to do it again, I'd go to OU because I could get instate tuition...if you keep your grades up and have good test scores, you can get instate almost anywhere though. There are a lot of aviation scholarships for part 121 schools though). Do your best on AP tests. Try engineering or some other technical field - Aerospace, physics, math...anything along those lines. Do them first, and take liberal arts on the side if you're interested. Remember, you'll have the rest of your life to read great books and think deep thoughts, but it's not real easy to teach yourself multi variable calculus or advanced thermodynamics on your own (I know first hand). Just make sure you like wherever you end up. If you end up at a school where you'll be making big bucks hauling freight and rich people by your junior year, but you're miserable and have no social life, it's probably still going to be a long 4 years.

Sorry for being longwinded. If you have any other questions, please ask.

Good luck!

One more thought: Remember to have fun in college. There aren't many ultimate frizbee clubs for old guys. My training will probably slow down in the fall/winter because I know after these next two years, I'll never be able to lay someone out on the ice, or get in a legal fight again. Go crazy for flying, but make sure you don't pass up too many once in a lifetime oppurtunities for fun at college.

 

[Metro752]

did anyone mention the kid who went to the big flight school in florida right out of high school and got a job with Colgan at the age of 19?

 

[Flyingdutchman]

I flew 310's at 18 and King air 200's (PIC) at 19.... Big deal

Buddy of mine in Europe (24) is a captain on the A320 in Spain. Got hired at age 19.

re college: just go!!! 4/5 years of having fun with college chick 24/7 !!! it's the best thing ever!

FD

 

[idoitupsidedown]

my .02

Exactly. Degrees and more education are the bonuses of college. The reason to go to college is to have fun, meet people, have a few years of your life to d!ck around and in general have fun. If you go from high school right into professional flying, all you'll know is your high school friends and your flying co-workers. how boring. Finish up your degree on line? ok, i can see where that might be cool...get a few years of college then finish while your working. to each his own though. And no, definatly DO NOT get a degree that says you know how to fly airplanes. I have one. It is worthless. My certificates should be the only thing I have that say i'm qualified to fly airplanes because if (knock on wood) i ever loose them - medical problems, etc. - I'm sure I'll be able to get a job doing something that pays OK just b/c i have a college degree, but it won't be as good as it coulda been if i had say an engineering degree or a business degree. Also, think about how much you really need to spend to fly in college. I came to college with a wet Private Certificate and about 50 hours TT. I graduated three years later w/a 4 year degree, 1000TT/100 multi, and only 28K in student loans. still a big chunk of change, but nothing compared to some others that went to (drum roll please) accredited flight universities - erau, pu, etc. (my alma mater is an accredited university as a whole, but the aerospace department is not accredited by whoever is the organization that does that for aerospace depts., i forget who im talking about, maybe someone else knows) Keep in mind that if you want to fly, many places require that 4 yr degree. BUT it can be in anything - math, business, art, music, UNDERWATER BASKET WEAVING! IT DOESNT MATTER!!!! it just has to b a 4 yr degree. So now, im 21 and using the year that would have been my fourth and final year of college to fly charter in light piston twins and learn even more than i did flight instructing so that here shortly i can take a very large paycut to go pull gear for a regional. So thats another way to get things done.

 

[knewhigher]

The things that will bring a lurker out of the woodworks...

[FONT=&quot]The original post was pretty accurate, at least in my case. By the time I was 15 I was washing airplanes at local airports, which helped me in many ways. I was able to make money for training, earn free flight time, and the most important thing... NETWORK! The contacts I made through washing airplanes helped me later down the road. I earned all my ratings with the money that I earned washing airplanes (yes it IS possible to pay as you go, even for a high school student). Through networking I was able to finagle my way into free flight time, discounted check rides, and even free flight instruction. All I did was work hard, treat people with respect, and hang out at the airport A LOT.

By the time I graduated high school I had my CFI and began teaching the people I used to wash planes for. After I earned my commercial ticket I NEVER HAD TO FLY FOR FREE or PFT. I was flying photo flights, ferry flights, and banner towing to earn money for my CFI and multi. I was able to go to a full time college and instruct about 60 hours a month. I built multi time by becoming an MEI.

I am now 20 and fly a CRJ for a regional carrier and am finishing my four year degree online, which is perfect for horrifically long reserve duties. I was able to do it all debt free.

I am in no way an expert, just a lowly Barbie jet FO. But if I were to give advice to a high schooler with flying aspirations it would be:
- don't wait until after college (most parents are reluctant to pay for flight training while in high school... screw em' PAY FOR IT YOURSELF!); its also much easier to afford when you have no bills, a wife, and/or kids
- find a job IN aviation while you are training (plane washer, FBO desk, etc.)
- NETWORK![/FONT]

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

For your first post I think you hit a homerun. The information you have provided will be useful to others.

Welcome to the Board.

 

[mhcasey]

Undaunted Flyer, as usual, is right. The only thing I'd do differently than knewhigher is go to a cool university and instead of going to the regionals at 20, continue to instruct/build time until graduation. College is too fun to miss. Some guys can though, and to knewhigher, congrats on advancing so quickly!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

As MHCASEY points out, there are many paths to a successful career in aviation. KNEWHIGHER's path may be right for him and the college path preceding the Regional's may be right for others. But in either case, a college degree is a must unless you will be satisfied with being a "Lifer" in the Regionals. In that case "burnout" may make your career an unpleasant experience.

Bottom line, be sure to get your 4-year college degree early in your career. If you are "sucked" into a Regional job shortly after high school or by leaving college for the "glory" of flying an RJ, you'll have to figure out how to get your degree some non-traditional way and soon. Maybe on-line or maybe by a LOA from your Regional. But to the best of my knowledge LOA's are almost unheard of for such productive things as college. The Regional's want you to be a "Lifer." LOA is only for emergency family-leave as is provided for by law as far as a Regional is concerned. A pilot at the Regionals and even the Majors is just a number and a body to manipulate the flight controls.

As my son said to me one time, "An airline job is the factory job of piloting." This is true and personally I have had no problem with that concept. In fact I like it because there is so little likelihood of error. It is a factory job but I like it just fine.

 

[knewhigher]

Yeah I tried traditional college for a year and a half. It just wasn't for me, but I would never tell anyone not to go.

 

[FlyingHigh262]

join the military....

 

[jaxpilot]

If your parents can put you through college without you having to work, do it. Holding a job that pays the bills while in college takes the fun out of the college experience. Otherwise join the military and let them pay for it.