High Density Altitude/Heavy hauler

[westwind]

A few years ago, we contracted a Sikorsky Skycrane to install lift towers at my place of work. If memory serves, it operated at over 11,000', with a density altitude of maybe 12,500' or so, while taking a max load of 5,000 to 6,000 lbs.
It looks like we will be doing a lot of work this summer at an altitude of 12,800' with a DA estimated to be over 14,000' I always thought that the Skycrane was the 800 lb Gorilla in this game, but our Lift's Manager said (over a beer or three ) that he is bringing in something with even more lifting capability. Enlighten me on what is out there that can do this job. Thanks

 

[mattpilot]

the Skycrane can lift some 15000lbs.... (**edit: according to one source)

The Mi-26 has the greatest lifting capacity of any helicopter of ~44000 lbs.

There are some inbetween, but the only one i can think of right now is the Sikorsky SA-64F with a lifting capacity of ~24300 lbs. (**edit, according to another source - the SA-64 IS the skycrane, btw - sorry for the screwup).

 

[mattpilot]

What exactly are you lifting? Logs?

I found a little webpage that should be of interest to you, if thats infact the business you are in.

http://www.fao.org/documents/show_cdr.asp?url_file=/DOCREP/005/AC805E/ac805e06.htm

 

[westwind]

Hmmm. That SA-64 in your link looks identical to the machine we used for our last lift installation. Orange, named "Bubba", kinda big (duh!), spittin' image for the one on the movie "Swordfish". I have video of it in action, but need to transfer it to digital and find somebody to host it. http://news4colorado.com/localnews/local_story_020124311.html/resources_storyPrintableView
This is the project that was recently given the go-ahead. No tree cutting for this one. It's all above tree-line. Should be an interesting project.
Previous lift installations required some helicopter logging over wetlands, once with a Kaman K-Max and once with a Bell 214 (If I remember correctly).
I kinda figured that there was some crazy Soviet-era hardware out there that bested American helicopters. Is anybody operating the Rooskie stuff over here?

 

[mattpilot]

hmm.. i didn't notice that... The sikorsky SA-64 IS the skycrane.... Can't believe i screwed that up. I also don't know why i have 2 different max weights on it. I looked it up on 2 different sources.

Sorry 'bout that

 

[Ollie]

Any chance he's talking about bringing in a Chinook? They have exceptional lift capabilitites even at high density altitudes.

 

[westwind]

He didn't mention the Chinook. We have used the Chinook in the past, but it was quite some time ago. I'll try and get a straight answer from him without the beers next time.

 

[FracCapt]

It looks like we will be doing a lot of work this summer at an altitude of 12,800' with a DA estimated to be over 14,000' I always thought that the Skycrane was the 800 lb Gorilla in this game, but our Lift's Manager said (over a beer or three ) that he is bringing in something with even more lifting capability. Enlighten me on what is out there that can do this job. Thanks

Probably the K-Max. It's got some pretty impressive lift capability. Counter rotating intermeshing main rotors. Do a Google search for Kaman K-Max and you should be able to find info about it.

 

[mattpilot]

Probably the K-Max. It's got some pretty impressive lift capability. Counter rotating intermeshing main rotors. Do a Google search for Kaman K-Max and you should be able to find info about it.

This one?

http://www.fao.org/documents/show_cdr.asp?url_file=/DOCREP/005/AC805E/ac805e06.htm

 

[Ollie]

That link looks like it's talking about the KA-32 Helix. I could be wrong though. This is the Kaman K-MAX: http://homepages.wwc.edu/student/jorgbr/

 

[FracCapt]

That link looks like it's talking about the KA-32 Helix. I could be wrong though. This is the Kaman K-MAX: http://homepages.wwc.edu/student/jorgbr/

That's the one. Though, I doubt that's the official Kaman website..

Edit: A quick search turned up: http://www.kamanaero.com/aerospace.htm Look about 2/3 of the way down the page.

 

[mattpilot]

gawd that thing is ugly

 

[rubberducky]

Erickson has two verisions of the skycrane, one can lift 20000 and the other 25000. Columbia also has a Chinook that can handle 28000...

 

[westwind]

That K-MAX could haul a buttload of logs, that's for sure. One thing that was interesting with it was, when the rotors just started turning at takeoff, it looked like it was going to shake itself and the pilot apart. As the rotor speed picked up, everything smoothed out.
I still haven't found out just what we are using yet.

gawd that thing is ugly

You think that's bad? http://homepages.wwc.edu/student/jorgbr/pics.htm This one looks like it plowed through a parade of clowns .

 

[Ollie]

That German K-MAX is pretty dang ugly. The way you're describing the aircraft shaking below max rotor RPM sounds like a tracking issue. For some reason or another, the way the rotors are tracked puts a large vibration at certain lower RPM, but at 100% it's smooth. I've flown Chinooks that do the exact same thing. At GND IDLE, it shakes so badly that you can barely read the instruments. As you move the ECL's to FLIGHT it gets worse, then as the rotor gets up into the green it becomes smooth as silk.

 

[ghostrider64]

You can get the basic weight of a chinook down to around 25K and its traditional certified max gross of 50K gives you 25K to play with. If you are talking sling loads I think 25K was the certified max. But I'm old so not positive.

Routinely flew 2000GAl water buckets long line for fire suppression. Think those babies oushed 18K loaded.

 

[Ollie]

Hey ghostrider, were you a hooker? If so, where were you stationed?

 

[ghostrider64]

No I was a Boxcar out of Ft Lewis WANG.....Hookers are the reserve guys....

 

[westwind]

Yep, It's a Chinook. http://summitdaily.com/article/20050802/NEWS/50802004/0/FRONTPAGEThey flew right over me today, checking out the situation. That thing is Frickin' HUGE! Of course, now that everything is getting all lined up, the weather is turning to crap. What else is new .