Hey YIP

[RedGuy]

NO QUESTION ---- I would say "F*C* Aviation" before doing this.

What a way to live..

Why? You don't like to work for a living?

 

[T-REX]

NO QUESTION ---- I would say "F*C* Aviation" before doing this.

What a way to live..

Somebody posted a few months back, "It's the only way to get 15 years expreience in 3 years." Where else is a guy with 1500 hours in 3 years gonna have 1000+ jet PIC with international experience? For myself, even with better pay aside, it sounded much better than being just another guy with SIC RJ time.

Definately not a job for someone currently flying a Gulfstream. But hopefully, it gets the rest of us closer to a job like yours that affords us such perspective.

 

[PCL_128]

Why? You don't like to work for a living?

I don't think anyone minds a little work, but this is just being treated like a dog. You USAJet guys really need to get a union on the property. No professional pilot should ever be treated like you guys are.

 

[RedGuy]

I don't think anyone minds a little work, but this is just being treated like a dog. You USAJet guys really need to get a union on the property. No professional pilot should ever be treated like you guys are.

What's soo bad about the treatment? I don't work for USA but another on demand airfreight out fit. Yeah, sometimes it sucks to be on a short leash, but you learn to live with it, how to still live AND be withing 20min of the airport. Loading your own freight, that's no big deal, so you might get alittle swetty and dirty. I only stay on the road about 1 night a week, the rest I'm home. They run us hard when it's busy, but I don't mind, I came here to fly and make money. So far both have been good. In the last three months I've piled on 400hrs of multi turbin time, where else you going to do that? Would I do this for the rest of my life, no way. But for some one just starting out you'll build time 3 or 4 times faster than at a regional, make twice as much or more, upgrade faster, and above all REALLY LEARN how to fly as a professional.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Why? You don't like to work for a living?

you have to be a complete idiot to work under those conditions.

How many people at these places have lives? a family? hobbies?

To even consider this a career type of job? I cant fathom it. You would become some "freight dog for life" freak....a stepping stone?? sure you bet, many jobs are...but a career? 20 mins to be in the building? huh?

its a job folks, a way to support you family and lifestyle...no?

keep telling yourself its where you "learn how to really fly"...got news for you -- many places WONT hire long term freight pilots because they question WHY someone works under these conditions....can you fly an ILS to 0/0 in broken equpment and for $hit pay, plus fudge the paperwork before the ramp check???? YES OF COURSE!, IM A FREIGHT DOG MAN.....great.

exactly why I wouldn't hire you.

 

[RedGuy]

you have to be a complete idiot to work under those conditions.

How many people at these places have lives? a family? hobbies?

To even consider this a career type of job? I cant fathom it. You would become some "freight dog for life" freak....a stepping stone?? sure you bet, many jobs are...but a career? 20 mins to be in the building? huh?

its a job folks, a way to support you family and lifestyle...no?

keep telling yourself its where you "learn how to really fly"...got news for you -- many places WONT hire long term freight pilots because they question WHY someone works under these conditions....can you fly an ILS to 0/0 in broken equpment and for $hit pay, plus fudge the paperwork before the ramp check???? YES OF COURSE!, IM A FREIGHT DOG MAN.....great.

exactly why I wouldn't hire you.

You've never flown freight. Your on the outside looking in, and you've got it all wrong. I know there's places that won't hire long term freighters and it's because they think like you. Fly an approach to 0/0, never happens, contrary to popular belief we don't bust minimums because we don't want to die either. Matter of fact seems to me I here more about some dumb corporate pilots bashing one in because their PAX presured them into it. Sorry but the boxes never pressure me, we're perfectly happy going somewhere else if the weather is that low. Broken equipment, there's another one for ya. No we won't grond the plane because the ashtray is missing, or in the case of a particular Masaba crew becasue they THOUGHT they might have had a bird strike even though there where NO dents or even bird guts. But we're not flying around in some jallopy where nothing works, this comes back to the we don't want to die either. $hit for pay, that's where your WAY off, I make at least twice as much as a regional F/O. BTW we never fudge paper work, there's no reason to, we follow the ruels too. As far as time spent away from home, I only spend about 1 night a week on the road, I know of alot more corporate and airline pilots that can't say that. I don't have a family, nor would I with a job like this, but most of our Captains do, they deal with it. So as far as I can see the only real hang up is the 20 minutes away and on call, big deal. BTW I never said it was a long term career, I plan on spending a few years doing this, but not the rest of my career.

 

[Fly4hire]

jurrassic,
The 121 side is growing and will be running classes in '06. I've also heard the rumor about wanting 25 airplanes. Upgrade time can be quick especially with the growth going on. The downside is less experience in the cockpit.

I have a couple of contacts who work there, and the quick upgrade is not universal - typically those who are on furlough from UAL, DAL, NWA, etc. that have a lot of jet experience. It's still seniority, however apprently they have hired a number of lower time and turbo-prop F/O's who need a lot more time before they will upgrade them. (Disclaimer - not dinging lower time regional pilots, just the reality of the difference between 10, 15000 hr + , large jet 121 experienced crew members)

 

[rnobson]

I just awakened from a kinda dream where a fr8 pilot works only 10 months a year (takes Jan/Feb off and enjoys the sunshine of "Downunder") Starts back March 1st each year and has all the days off he wants There was a rumor that he earned somewhere in the region of $300,000 in the last 20 months of "on call" You might think that's impossible Of course I couldn't possibly comment !!!!!

 

[CapnVegetto]

How in the bloody hell do you expect guys to get out of bed, get dressed, drive to the field, file a flight plan, preflight a jet, perform all cockpit checks, and get off the ground in 45 minutes???? OMFG. Unbelievable.

 

[RedGuy]

How in the bloody hell do you expect guys to get out of bed, get dressed, drive to the field, file a flight plan, preflight a jet, perform all cockpit checks, and get off the ground in 45 minutes???? OMFG. Unbelievable.

It's accually not that hard. Though my company generally gives us an hour to get off the ground, it's not uncomon to be off in 45. Usually who ever get's to the airport first file's and the other guy pre-flights the plane, the the cockpit check only takes about 2 min, all the rest of the checks are done on our way out to the runway. The hardest part is jumping out of bed at O-dark thirty and rushing in to the airport. Though, it's pretty easy for me since I live within 10 min of the airport it gives me time to shower and get ready. I don't like to start the day without a shower. Other guys that live farther away usually get everything ready the night before so they just have to get dressed and go.

 

[N817AA]

We don't have to file at USA JET. WE have dispatchers to take care of it.

 

[Redmeat]

We don't have to file at USA JET. WE have dispatchers to take care of it.

"We don't have to file".

My God do they list that as a company benefit? "Pilots don't have to file here?"

Why would they waste their time with the pilots filing when they can spend it with them with their pants down takin it in the pooper?

When the hell would you have time to file?

"In the building in 25 and wheels up in 45 from the call"? If this is true, you guys don't even have enough time to safely evaluate the weather and the rest of the flight plan in my opinion. You're too busy being all "a$$hole and elbows" racing the clock.

Who do they find to do this job?

 

[Junkflyer]

Ouch!

 

[inline]

"We don't have to file".

My God do they list that as a company benefit? "Pilots don't have to file here?"

Why would they waste their time with the pilots filing when they can spend it with them with their pants down takin it in the pooper?

When the hell would you have time to file?

"In the building in 25 and wheels up in 45 from the call"? If this is true, you guys don't even have enough time to safely evaluate the weather and the rest of the flight plan in my opinion. You're too busy being all "a$$hole and elbows" racing the clock.

Who do they find to do this job?[/

quote]


Not whiney crybabies like you.

 

[Redmeat]

Not whiney crybabies like you.

Call me what you like but those work rules are B.S no matter what angle you want to base your argument from.

How's your pooper feel?:0

 

[inline]

Call me what you like but those work rules are B.S no matter what angle you want to base your argument from.

How's your pooper feel?:0

Yea, I called you what I like because it's true. And your last line on your post proves you're also an imbecile.

 

[Redmeat]

Yea, I called you what I like because it's true. And your last line on your post proves you're also an imbecile.

The truth only hurts if it should.

 

[pilotyip]

Family time

Gulf guy lots of our pilots have, hobbies, and side businesses, they are only gone from home base an average of about 5 days a month. Now they made have out back over nights. Actually as far as time with your family goes I would say USA Jet is way above average.

 

[pilotyip]

Safely launch

PCL, as far as the union thing goes, having worked at 2 union airlines in the on-demand business. I would take USA Jet over what I had there any day. As far as being safely launched in 45 minute, the military does that stuff all the time and they do it safely, I would say our launch procedures are very similar. The flight plan comes from Jepps data plan, with flight plan required fuel, dispatch fuels the airplane. Dispatch pulls printed weather dest, alt, enroute, and notams, for you, if there is bad stuff the dispatcher will have more detail, the F/O goes to the airplane takes about 10 minutes to set up and get clearance while the Captain is reviewing weather, routing, load plan, etc. Maintenance has pre-flighted the airplane at YIP. The Captain gets to the airplane closes the door, runs the pre-start and you are ready to go. If it can not be done safely, we do not do it. I want to be as open as possible about working conditions at USA Jet, so guys like you and G guy will not apply. But lots of guys think this is not a bad place to work. Some our NWA furloughees, say they are not going anywhere.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Shedding some light on the situation at USA Jet:

First, so you know where I'm coming from:
I've flown for the USAF (rotary and fixed-wing), Trans States Airlines and USA Jet. I've also worked as a DI collegiate coach and a full-time teacher. I like my job at USA Jet the best.

25" Callout with a 45" TO?-Not usually:
When we are in DTW, we do have to be in Operations in 25", WHEN we are called for a short-notice trip. Lots of our trips have longer call-out times-for example you answer the page and they tell you to show in 90". Also, many times when you get in to Operations, you find out that your block-out time is longer than 45" from call-out, so you have even more time than expected.

On a typical short-notice trip, you know you are #1 to be called so you can be prepared. When they call you they tell you where all of your stops are, and where you are picking up and dropping off cargo (or PAX-Of course, if you're PAX, you have a min 2-hr. call-out time, and almost all PAX trips are scheduled way ahead of time.) You show up, and your logcan with all your aircraft info is on the desk, along with your coversheet with a summary of your trip, and your flight plans for all your legs, with the notams and weather. If you are going to an unusual airport, the dispatcher has the Jepps book out and briefs you on that airport.

On the Falcon, while the FO gets the plane ready and sets up the cockpit, the Capt checks the WX/Notams and gets briefed on the trip by the Dispatcher (who, obviously, as already had the flight plan filed, along with customs, if necessary). If you want to visually check the weather the computer is at the end of the desk with the WX program already running.

Out at the airplane, the Capt does the walkaround. If there's a problem, or a question about MX, you call MX and they come out and check it out. If that delays you past your 45" TO time (if you even had one in the first place), that's no problem. If you take off and something breaks, you return (or divert, if returning's not an option), and either get it fixed or get a new airplane.

MX/Regs:
If something breaks, you tell the company, and it's either fixed, they give you a new plane, or you don't do the trip. We follow all the regs, including for HAZMAT trips. If the HAZMAT freight and paperwork are perfect, it still takes you at least 1 hour to process the extra checklists and coordinate with Dispatch to ensure everything is perfect. If it isn't perfect, the trip is not flown. Of my last 5 assigned HAZMAT trips, only 2 were actually flown, as the other three had problems, and I didn't fly the freight.

Just like any 121 airline, we have numbered log pages, and everything has to be signed off and perfect, otherwise we don't fly the plane.
Note: USA Jet is -121 supplemental. We have a waiver letter from the FAA to operate the Falcons -135. All of the training, MX, documentation, etc. is -121.

Weather:
I've been at USA Jet for 3 years, and have watched my captain fly one(1) approach to 200' mins. I've never flown an approach lower than 250' until we saw the runway and/or lights, and that's probably on only about 3 approaches.

I'm sure the airline guys have flown a lot more low approaches than we do. Why? Because if the weather's really bad we don't go there.

For example, we have had a number of trips given to our Dispatch, who either change the airport of arrival, or turn down the trip outright because of the weather. If we are doing a trip, and at some point we see the weather is not very good, we just change the airport of destination to a nearby one that has better weather/longer runway/better approaches, etc. We don't have to get our cargo to a specific airport, just to the general area. Also, we do a TON of flying into the Mexican border area and Mexico itself, which usually means relatively good weather.

I know one of our pilots who had a takeoff out of Detroit, and the runway conditions were questionable. This pilot told Dispatch that he wasn't comfortable with the conditions, and Dispatch said "OK"-end of story. After about 5 hours the runway conditions were better, but that crew had burned through a lot of duty time, so Dispatch brought in a new crew to fly the trip.

A bunch of our pilots have had long days, and told Dispatch they were terminating their flying as they were too tired-end of story. I've had Dispatch tell me they're giving me 16 hours off as we had a pretty tiring trip. I've asked Dispatch for more than 10 hours off, and 95% of the time they give me more than 10. When we block in out of town, we finish the logbook and postflight, wait for the hotel van, check in, get in our rooms, and then start our 10 hours off. Usually they also round up to the next 1/2 hour or so to start our crew rest. At TSA it was 15" after block in, as per the contract, regardless of anything else. Sometimes it's more flexible not having a contract.

Pay, QOL, etc:
Starting pay is a base of $33K, and you will make more than that. Most of our Falcon trips we don't load the freight, and if we do, we get paid for it. We only load the freight for free if it's something easy, like a couple of 30 lb. boxes.

If you're off station with days off coming up, the co. will fly you back to DTW, or somewhere else if it's practical (I've been airlined home a number of times). They will also airline you from your home to a plane, if practical. One of my crashpad mates wasn't in DTW for 6+ weeks, because the co. kept airlining him in and out of his hometown airport.

If the company wants to use you on one (or more) of your days off, you have 3 options.
1-Just say NO.
2-Take 4 hours of pay as compensation, which for new guys = $51+/hour x four hrs = $204+
3-Bank your day off for use at a time of your choosing.

The Falcon guys have 10 hard days off out of 28, with a variety of schedules (10 in a row/2 blocks of 5/3 blocks of 3-3-4, etc.) The -9 guys have 12 hard days off, with their 1/7 often giving them more days off. Most pilots have the holidays off, if you're flying freight, as most manufacturers are shut down on the holidays. My first year I was home for Thanksgiving and XMas.

The average is about 1 year to move to the -9, or upgrade to Falcon captain. The -9 base pay is $36k, and they fly more than the Falcons.

One negative (for most? pilots) is that we fly less than the scheduled airlines, usually about 40-60 hours/month.

Of course, flying for SWA, FedEx, Alaska, or a GOOD corporate outfit is a better job than USA Jet, and if you have a job like that-good for you! I know a guy who flies for Alaska, and he says a lot of their pilot's bitch incessantly.

If I found a job that was definitely better, I'd take it. These days, it's getting harder and harder to find better aviation jobs.

If you'd like more info about USA Jet, pm me.

Cliff
GRB

PS-One Falcon capt I knew, who lives in DTW (I commute) says he was averaging over 20 nights/month at home.

PPS-As far as commuting, we were just notified that we will be in CASS ASAP.