Here's a new one from NJA, pretty funny.

[fischman]

The info was put out to a group of PILOTS who happened to be in CMH for whatever reason. Now none of the over 2500 pilots is allowed to hear the info?

Its not like this was a top secret management brief. These were ordinary working pilots.

Ok no biggy

Like I said earlier go ahead and bring on the election. The whole pilot group will then be heard.

NetJets pilots are privy to the information. Just contact the D.O., or the NJASAP FWG, and you can get the same briefing I got.

 

[OPECJet]

What Fischman said didn't look like a threat to me, just a stern warning and not out of line either.

I don't like seeing this dirty laundry out here for the world to see, but let's not forget why it's here.

 

[RP170]

Had they revised the bylaws, this thread wouldn't have been started.

You got that right.

 

[CA1900]

What else would you have us do? Honestly. What else could we have done, or can we do to help out the 495?

Keeping full access to the union message board would have been huge. I've heard the arguments against it, and strongly disagree with them. If other unions managed to do it without upsetting the Department of Labor, we certainly could have figured out how they did it instead of reinventing the wheel (and somehow coming to a different conclusion).

And since the bylaws were being amended anyway at virtually the same time as the furlough, a bylaw provision is not a valid reason to lock them out. Until they've resigned that seniority number, I believe they shouldn't be shut out.

We're seeing the end result of that horrible decision: our dirty laundry on FlightInfo for all to enjoy.

 

[fischman]

Keeping full access to the union message board would have been huge. I've heard the arguments against it, and strongly disagree with them. If other unions managed to do it without upsetting the Department of Labor, we certainly could have figured out how they did it instead of reinventing the wheel (and somehow coming to a different conclusion).

And since the bylaws were being amended anyway at virtually the same time as the furlough, a bylaw provision is not a valid reason to lock them out. Until they've resigned that seniority number, I believe they shouldn't be shut out.

We're seeing the end result of that horrible decision: our dirty laundry on FlightInfo for all to enjoy.

I can't disagree with you about any of that.

I'm just saying what the bylaws say. Not what they should say.

 

[CRJFlyer]

Why would you contact the FWG? To get OFFICIAL up to date information instead of B.S. rumor you get on FI.com.

No one is saying you can't talk about what BRK puts out in their statements. What I'm saying is that the reason you don't get HARD NUMBERS is because of loud mouths posting information the company considers sensitive. You want to know why you aren't in the loop? Look in the mirror.

So your saying the union does have official info. I got news for you..The union either doesn't know anything management doesn't tell them or they are guessing like the rest of us. It would be a complete waste of my time to call a rep/steward or whatever (seeing how I've gotten wrong info from them before).

And do you think for a second management would tell recurrents hard numbers? I've been through this goat rope before BTW... I know how it works, and no one from company will come in and give a hard number. so it basically becomes a moot point if I or anyone else posts your so called CONFIDENTIAL info because it is all speculation. And as such I highly doubt someone is gonna pull mine or anyone elses info off this site and try to use it against us. You and a few other computer/msg board die hards may have your "big brother" theories, but I got news for you, it ain't gonna happen.

hazmat hit the nail on the head.. During my last furlough I was treated with more respect and overall better than we have been by some of our own pilots. I'm pro-union, but even they have lost a lot of my vote of confidence.

 

[jppt2000]

[.....

 

[CRJFlyer]

Again, how is this a threat? I am not in management. I am a line pilot. I don't have the authority to release people.

The furloughees are not permitted on the union boards because of the bylaws. I am just a line pilot. I am not stopping them from coming on the union boards, the bylaws are.

Here are the simple facts:

1) A manager came to a recurrent class and specified multiple times that the info provided is confidential. Thats cool, guess I missed that meeting.
2) All NetJets employees have signed agreements to not divulge information as to our inner workings. super secret inner working. Have planes will fly. It's not the dam CIA
3) CRJFlyer starts a thread wanting us to spew this information on a public board, and then can't realize his request isn't possible. what request? seems I only said what everyone in the fractional world already knows. NJA is hurting, may still be overstaffed and considering more cuts according to a friend of a friend of one of our furloughed guys.
4) I try to protect not only NetJets, but CRJFlyer from divulging this information, and am accused of threatening him. Thanks for the protection, but I think I can handle it.. Can you try to hold my hand on a flight also, there may be some top secret aspect to flying I haven't figured out yet.


Like I said, if you or anyone wants to publish this information go right ahead. Just be prepared to suffer the consequences.Shaking, seriously shaking. I may lose sleep over it. BTW there is no information to publish.. besides the general comes into recurrent and proclaims a new look at staffing in MArch according to someone who was at the meeting. Sorry if your being too dense right now to figure this all out without breaking confidentiality.[/QUOTE]

heres the part you don't get fisch.. I wasn't at those meeting/recurrent, so whoever started this little rumor is the one who is breaking agreements.. God bless NJA if they can prove I or any other furlough was the one breaking an agreement.

Wow..I'm amazed right now. NJA: "es judge, CRJflyer is furloughed and wasn't in CMH at anytime. But we have news that he is leaking info about the content of the meetings."

Judge:"huh, how could he have info from a meeting he never attended?"

Wait, I'm still laughing over your apparent lack of knowledge about our criminal justice system. But I forgot, there are those at NJA that think they would know more than a cardiologist about open heart surgery.

 

[fischman]

So your saying the union does have official info. I got news for you..The union either doesn't know anything management doesn't tell them or they are guessing like the rest of us. It would be a complete waste of my time to call a rep/steward or whatever (seeing how I've gotten wrong info from them before).

And do you think for a second management would tell recurrents hard numbers? I've been through this goat rope before BTW... I know how it works, and no one from company will come in and give a hard number. so it basically becomes a moot point if I or anyone else posts your so called CONFIDENTIAL info because it is all speculation. You're the one who started the thread. Not me. And as such I highly doubt someone is gonna pull mine or anyone elses info off this site and try to use it against us. Are you willing to try that gamble? I'm not. You and a few other computer/msg board die hards may have your "big brother" theories, but I got news for you, it ain't gonna happen. Are you SURE? Would you risk a $130,000 a year job over it?

hazmat hit the nail on the head.. During my last furlough I was treated with more respect and overall better than we have been by some of our own pilots. I'm pro-union, but even they have lost a lot of my vote of confidence.

The FWG has access to the amount of planes, trips, pilots, etc. to be able to perform an analysis and come to the same conclusion (within 1%) that the company did. So yes, I believe their numbers are as good a guess as any.

So if you were treated so much better the last time you were furloughed, how has NJASAP failed you? Did the Voluntary Measures and monetary sacrifices we took not help you at all? Has the money we have donated to the NJFF been wasted? If it is, please let me know. I don't want to donate to an organization that isn't living up to it's promises.

I don't know where you were brought up, but when someone does something nice for me, I don't spit in their face. I say "thank you". If we treated you as poorly as you claim, I don't think I'd want to come back. Why don't you just resign your seniority number, then you can talk about company secrets as loud as you want.

 

[CRJFlyer]

We're seeing the end result of that horrible decision: our dirty laundry on FlightInfo for all to enjoy.

Yup, and exactly as promised I might add. Some here can't handle that their precious company has any issues. But like we've all said, once we were shut out, that was our reasoning to put the laundry on the line.

Now I won't go as far as telling pax names etc.. which IS a complete breach, but something as low key as possibly more furloughs, is NOT a big news story as far as secrecy. It is huge as far as recalls etc.

 

[jppt2000]

Yup, and exactly as promised I might add. Some here can't handle that their precious company has any issues. But like we've all said, once we were shut out, that was our reasoning to put the laundry on the line.

Now I won't go as far as telling pax names etc.. which IS a complete breach, but something as low key as possibly more furloughs, is NOT a big news story as far as secrecy. It is huge as far as recalls etc.

........
It's our company, you are included. Please stop what you're doing

 

[CRJFlyer]

The FWG has access to the amount of planes, trips, pilots, etc. to be able to perform an analysis and come to the same conclusion (within 1%) that the company did. So yes, I believe their numbers are as good a guess as any. You've got your opinion, I have mine. If they could even have an accurate answer as to the # of sell-offs I'd be happy, but they have yet to figure that out yet either.

So if you were treated so much better the last time you were furloughed, how has NJASAP failed you? Not blaming NJASAP for the furlough, I am a man of reason. I am partially blaming them for some wrong info and also for the perceived cut off from the rest of "society". Hell we were denied access to the msg. board before the company even got around to cutting us off. Did the Voluntary Measures and monetary sacrifices we took not help you at all?Here we go. Thats what pisses many of us off. It's always you,you,you sacrificed and gave. Did you ever stop to think that most of us sacrificed through the VM's. I know I took 2 of the 3 measures Has the money we have donated to the NJFF been wasted? If it is, please let me know. I don't want to donate to an organization that isn't living up to it's promises.

I don't know where you were brought up, but when someone does something nice for me, I don't spit in their face. I say "thank you". Listen, like I said, I sacrificed plenty, and that was before any of us knew how deep the cuts would go. I really didn't think my number would be called, but I still sacrificed along with you. If we treated you as poorly as you claim, I don't think I'd want to come back. Why don't you just resign your seniority number, then you can talk about company secrets as loud as you want.

what you and a select few don't see is there are a ton of pissed off furloughees right now, and many of them are pissed at the company, union, pilots, or all three... there is a reason for that. and the truth lies somewhere in all these posts and the posts on NJASAP and on the new board. Most of us have been through this before, and I know I wasn't pissed at all the last time this happened. So it's not the loss of job that has me pissed.

But what ticks us off even more is when guys like you either can't see their way clear of a furloughees discussion, or has the need to tell us how we should feel about certain things. Just like what was told to Higgy. If you don't have a dog in this hunt you should just steer clear

 

[CRJFlyer]

........
It's our company, you are included. Please stop what you're doing

:bawling: j/j.......By morning the wife will be at work and I'll have no time for any more of this..

 

[fischman]

what you and a select few don't see is there are a ton of pissed off furloughees right now, and many of them are pissed at the company, union, pilots, or all three... there is a reason for that. and the truth lies somewhere in all these posts and the posts on NJASAP and on the new board. Most of us have been through this before, and I know I wasn't pissed at all the last time this happened. So it's not the loss of job that has me pissed.

But what ticks us off even more is when guys like you either can't see their way clear of a furloughees discussion, or has the need to tell us how we should feel about certain things. Just like what was told to Higgy. If you don't have a dog in this hunt you should just steer clear

I'm not trying to tell you how you should feel. I'm trying to tell you that it is poor judgment to broadcast information the company considers sensitive, and that we haven't forgotten the 495. We gave up quite a bit for you guys. I'm sorry you are furloughed. I'm sorry you feel we pissed on you. I just don't know what else we could have done for our furloughed. Since I haven't seen any other suggestions, I'm guessing you have no other ideas as well? I WILL pass them on if you do.

 

[HazMat]

Let them on the union board. Anyone would be pissed about being cast aside like that.

 

[CRJFlyer]

I'm not trying to tell you how you should feel. I'm trying to tell you that it is poor judgment to broadcast information the company considers sensitive, I happen to disagree about the sensative part and that we haven't forgotten the 495. We gave up quite a bit for you guys. As did I. If you'd stop dividing everything between us and them as far as sacrifices, '05 contract etc. there wouldn't be a problem. My paycheck took just a big a hit as yours % wise. I'm sorry you are furloughed. I'm sorry you feel we pissed on you. Never said I felt pissed on. annoyed by alot of what has been said by the "senior" staff maybe. I just don't know what else we could have done for our furloughed. Since I haven't seen any other suggestions, I'm guessing you have no other ideas as well? I WILL pass them on if you do. Well for starters, msg. board consideration would have been nice so we know whats going on a bit. The furlough section isn't quite cutting it. Certain members of the group moderating CONFIDENTIAL info and then explaining it isn't for public use. As if we were now the public. And now some are complaining when this type of thread comes up as if they didn't know some mud would be slung when we were in fact cut off.

[/QUOTE]

I started this thread purely for tha fact that now everything is being censored. and it's being censored from the pilots on furlough. Fine if you want to keep it from owners etc. But to deem us "public." and honestly, did you think that some one wouldn't tell one of their buddies about recurrents etc. (which BTW wasn't me, I don't keep in touch with anyone there, except a few furloughees) So I was simply relaying what I and most others heard before the post was moderated. and yes I did post it here out of a bit of spite.

Thats why i stated that it was funny in the title. I understand you may be one of those types that is afraid of msg. board rumors or getting caught by the man. But I'm not. and I don't make 130K, probably never will at NJA. Atleast not for a very, very long time.

 

[glasspilot]

there are a ton of pissed off furloughees right now,

using my calculator...

495 furloughed pilots at an average crew weight of 180 lbs would be 89,100 lbs or 44.55 tons.

Now we all know how NetJet pilots get fed so I'm thinking average weights might not apply...

 

[OPECJet]

using my calculator...

495 furloughed pilots at an average crew weight of 180 lbs would be 89,100 lbs or 44.55 tons.

Now we all know how NetJet pilots get feed so I'm thinking average weights might not apply...

That's awesome.....:laugh:

 

[N813CA]

All comair furloughed pilots have access to the union board and full support by the union even if it was their first year. Why not you guys?

 

[RP170]

What info are you considering confidential fisch that CRJ has posted? I don't see how rumors can be considered as "confidential company information." If he was stating specific performance numbers, data, marketing strategy or financial numbers then yeah, maybe that would be considered "confidential." Sounds like you are concerned over nothing.

For some reason the union/pilot group sure has been uptight about censorship and confidential information ever since this furloughed has occured. God forbid any of us furloughed guys get any "top secret" information.