Here U go, more PFT!

[LR25]

Falcon 20 Captain (IL) 6/10

Flight department based in Chicago area seeking a Falcon 20 Captain. Position will include 200+ hours per year Part 91 flying and 150+ hours of Part 135 flying. Ideal candidate MUST have a Falcon 20 type rating or be willing to participate financially in recurrent training AND meet the following minimum requirements:

ATP Multi-Engine
Falcon 20 Type Rating
3500 PIC
2500 Multi PIC
750 Turbojet PIC
Falcon 20 initial or recurrent training within the preceding 12 months



"Falcon 20 type rating or be willing to participate financially in recurrent training AND meet the following minimum requirements"


But they also need a pilot to!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

yup,
this one has already been posted, along with some nasty responses in regard to this fine opportunity

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T

And, without a doubt, they'll have multiple, financially-qualified applicants for the job.

I just don't understand it, sometimes. How can you expect a company to show respect when people stoop so low as to pay for a job? I've seen it in the three businesses in which I've worked. Low pay and/or BOHICA schemes attract subcaliber people. I saw it in radio stations. I saw it in aviation. I've seen it especially in law offices. Better-quality people who accept bad jobs do it only long enough to get out. The ones that stay are lesser quality people who do not expect or deserve respect.

<Sigh>

 

[WrightAvia]

They only do it because they know...

white people are tooooo chiken to burn down their own towns when they feel life is treating them unfair....

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/06/18/michigan.unrest/

 

[pilotyip]

PFT is up to the individuals

In the mid 90's PFT was very common. I was set up to interview at two PFT companies in 1996, ACA who wanted 10K for a J-41 F/O seat (no type rating), a job I should have taken because I would have made capt. in about 4-6 months, but they told me Capt would be 2-3 years. I could not live on J-41 F/O pay that long. All the guys who were hired that year are now senior RJ Capt's at ACA, if they did not go someplace else. The other company flew their DC-9 into the swamp in Fla 5 days before my interview. I elected not to go to the interview, since they had quit flying and did not answer the phone. But Value Jet charged 10K for a FSI DC-9 type. All the guys who hired before me are senior AirTran Capt's if they stayed there. Neither of these PFT jobs from the past would be considered bad jobs by 90% of the people reading this board. The bottom line PFT may give you opportunities that lead to a good job, it is up to the individual to see if PFT is right for them or not. If a person PFT's it doesn't mark them as a non-professional pilot any more than not having a college degree marks one as a non-professional pilot. If the DA-20 pays 25K per year and the PFT is only 5K for recurrent are you better taking that job, or taking a non PFT for 18K per year, the math is simple. If I was unemployed, I would look into it in a heartbeat.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Hate to tell ya but...

PFT?
No College Degree?

I dont know how to classify them in terms of "professionalism" but they will BOTH get you the bottom of the barrel jobs..like it or not, thats how it works.

 

[pilotyip]

Who are you to define a career?

Are you telling me one of our DC-9 Capts who makes well over 125K, who does not have a 4 yr degree is not a professional? are you telling the Army WO's who go and rescue hostages in battle conditions on NVG's, who don't have a 4 yr degree are not professional? are you telling me a majority of the senior Captains at AirTran and ACA are not professional? The possession of a 4 yr degree has nothing to do with your ability to be a professional pilot. Anymore than the possession of a degree means you will a better professional pilot. What then defines your definition of professional? We have problaby failed more 4 yr degree pilots out of our training program than non-4 yr degree pilots. Anyone else care to define the level of professionism and it's relation to a 4 yr degree.

 

[logolight]

I agree with pilotyip. Regional airlines don't require a 4 year degree and those pilots are no less professionals than anybody else. Accident rates and incidences are no higher with non 4 year degree pilots, and the flying public isn't able to tell one pilot's education apart from another unless their credentials are posted on the cockpit door. (which they're not) So other than bragging rights, who is trying to impress whom and what is to gain from it?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Ok I see...

I agree, you can act "professional" with or without a college degree, I do agree 100%..

All I was saying is that (like it or not) the lack of a 4yr degree will severly hamper your progress in this profession.

 

[bobbysamd]

Thread drift - or back to the old college degree debate

All I was saying is that (like it or not) the lack of a 4yr degree will severly hamper your progress in this profession.

A point which I second 100%. Why do so many airline apps make a big deal out of the "degree earned" box on the education table?

College may not be for everyone. But if you want to go to college, you should, and ignore any advice to the contrary. It cannot harm you and it can only benefit you. Deciding not to go to college because someone tells you that you do not need it to be successful in professional aviation would be an extremely unwise decision.

 

[46Driver]

I don't agree with Bobbysamd on a lot of things but I'm 100% with him here. Get that degree - you will skyline yourself without it - because you never know when you might lose your medical.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yep, like a person much wiser than I told me....

"...Son, a 4yr degree will open doors for you that might otherwise remain closed..."


It's as simple as that folks....like it or not.

Get it, you'll be glad you did at some point in your life.

 

[pilotyip]

nothing against 4 yr degree

When you go for the interview at LLC, you will be called in on the quality and quantity of your flight time, not the possession of a 4 yr degree, the degree might make a slight difference between two candidates at decision time, but the pilot who started pursuing flight right out of high school will have his flight time sooner and be interviewing in his mid 20's as opposed to the 4 yr degree guy typically in his late 20's. And if the 4 yr degree is in Applied Flight Technology from South Bumblebee State, where you get 15 credits for all your CFI's, 15 Credits for your Comm/Inst. etc. and the recruiter compares this to the non 4 yr degree pilot with a CFI, ATP, 500 MEL Turbin PIC, the 4 yr degree will carry very little weight and flight experience will be the telling factor. And if you drop out of flying the aviation degree from Bumblebee State will be close to useless. So if you are going to college to have a backup plan get a degree that leads to employment, Teacher, Nurse, CPA, Engineer, but many of the 4 yr degree seeking potential pilots will pursue a degree in Aviation Tech and I believe this hurts your career because every where except the majors you are hired on the quaility of your flight time and your personality. The four year degree limits your ability to build flight time. I have seen too many successful pilots without a 4 yr degree. No offense to Bumblebee State grads, they have great flight program.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Now....slowly back away from the 12 pack of Schlitz.

Im outta this one!

 

[bobbysamd]

Degree

When you go for the interview at LLC, you will be called in on the quality and quantity of your flight time, not the possession of a 4 yr degree, the degree might make a slight difference between two candidates at decision time . . . .

(emphasis added)

. . . . And if it were me, I sure would want that slight difference to be in my favor.

And if you drop out of flying the aviation degree from Bumblebee State will be close to useless.

Not necessarily true. I've heard of people with aviation degrees who land jobs in industry and in airport management. No college degree is useless.

Get the degree. Make sure it is from an accredited college, or it will be useless.

 

[Snakum]

No college degree is useless.

I have a couple friends with BAs in History and in English and they'd tend to disagree.



Minh

 

[pilotyip]

exactly

Exactly my point if those two college grads wanted to be pilots they would be way ahead in their career by spending the 40K-60K that the college cost someone, on ratings and pursuit of flying airplanes to make their resumes look good in terms of flt time and experience.

For Bobby, "the college degree might make a difference if both had equal quaifications" the point is as stated later in the same post, the college grad and the non-college grad will never be equal at the same age. The non-college grad pursuing a pilot's career will always have 1000-2000 hours more flight time. This is becasue he started flying first. There are many people out there who do not want to go to college or are not suited for college. For these people flying is still a career choice and college it not suited for them. BTW Bill Gates and David Neilman (Sp?) the brains behind JB, do not have college degrees.

 

[rightrudder]

Most major airlines will not interview a candidate without the 4 year degree. Many other airlines will not as well. You put yourself at a disadvantage without a degree.

 

[bobbysamd]

(Not) exactly

For Bobby, "the college degree might make a difference if both had equal quaifications" the point is as stated later in the same post, the college grad and the non-college grad will never be equal at the same age. The non-college grad pursuing a pilot's career will always have 1000-2000 hours more flight time. This is becasue he started flying first.

(emphasis added)

That's immaterial. Total quality of experience matters. You should know, in your position as talent buyer. Hours, or lack thereof, is only one criterion. If push comes to shove, the college grad with have the advantage at most majors and probably the regionals, too. Not having at least some college puts one at a disadvantage.

Get out your back issues of Career Pilot. You'll see that the vast majority of pilots hired by the majors had at least some college, if not four-year degrees or more.

I agree that some people are not suited for college. But you're dispensing bad advice by telling people that college is irrelevant to an aviation career. Especially to those who want to go and should go, but do not because you said they didn't have to. For them, the playing field will never be level.

 

[bigD]

BTW Bill Gates and David Neilman (Sp?) the brains behind JB, do not have college degrees.

Neither does Michael Dell. He dropped out of UT to focus on his computer company. But these guys never had to apply for a job. If you want to go out and start your own airline, you wouldn't need a degree either.

 

[KingAirer]

but the pilot who started pursuing flight right out of high school will have his flight time sooner and be interviewing in his mid 20's as opposed to the 4 yr degree guy typically in his late 20's.

Who says you cant fly and go to college at the same time? Most Airlines have an age minimum of 21. A traditional student graduates at 21/22 years of age. If they have been flying since the end of highschool and also during college, they should be qualified for a job and ALSO have that 4 year degree. Getting the degree means you can go through tough courses and finish. Its proof that you are determined. I say, get the degree.

 

[PCL_128]

Getting the degree while flying is always an option also. I'm currently getting my degree through UVSC, but Embry Riddle, Phoenix U, and plenty of other colleges and universities offer online courses that can get you your B.S. while you're working at an airline already.

UVSC and Embry Riddle offer credits for flying experience also, so that helps. UVSC gave me 16 credits for my flying experience, and they also allow you to test out of an addition 16. I'm not sure how Embry Riddle handles the credit though.

 

[400A]

proof

Well ya'll,, I almost never agree with G200 but I have to this time.

I stopped with 2-1/2 years of college, partly because I could not wait to fly, and partially due to the birth of my first child many years ago, and while I have been able to earn a very good living flying corporate, It held me back from the Majors. My brother hand carried my package in to an unnamed MAJOR, and while I was put in an interview pool, he was told that to overcome not having a college degree I needed an additional 5000 hours. That meant on their point system, a guy with a degree and 200 hours ranked higher than me.

When a company is looking at you on paper, an accredited degree is easily verified. Unless military or airline, it is harder to verify flight time. It is simple, The degree indicates ability to learn.

I understand it does not make them better pilots, but when they are only looking at a piece of paper (Resume), they have to strart somewhere. I will finish mine one day.

 

[400A]

BTW

Non degreed pilots can be just a Professional as one with the degree. That has to do with how YOU operate as a Pilot, and your reputation can carry you a long way in corporate, but that is VERY difficult to transfer to the airlines, even if you know someone.

 

[TurboS7]

No 4 year degree and piloting a large aircraft is my profession,an d I make good money at it.

 

[WrightAvia]

since we're on the subject of degrees...

and for the moment, I'm not being a jacka$$. I have questions.

Currently I have a two year degree in criminology. I have the time at work and the time at home, to pound out a BS degree on the computer. Which online programs are you guys using? Any complaints? How long would it take a guy with an associates degree and the "16" credits worth of flight experience to get a bachelors degree?

 

[pilotyip]

and your point is?

I agree whole-hearted you will probably never get hired by a major without a college degree, although I know of two in the last 5 years, one with a GED. But there is so much more to flying than the majors and for someone to narrowly define their career as a major pilot can only lead to disappointment. You proponents of the 4 yr are going to lead some prospective pilot who has no aspirations of flying for a major down the 4 yr degree path and it will do nothing for his career. They will probably pursue a degree in some non-employable area, which is waste of time and money. As stated above two guys with degrees in history and English are unemployable except at jobs that do not require a 4 yr degree. If you go to college get a real degree that leads to a career, teaching engineering, nursing, etc. I have interviewed pure idiots with 4 yr degrees, I have hired pilots without 4 yr degrees that score in the upper 90% percentile of our placement tests and simply blow away the class averages in ground school. I have hired pilots with 4 yr degree that did not make through ground school. The college degree has nothing to do with flying airplanes and you can pursue a successful career without a college degree. There are many more ways to prove your worth as a human than possession of piece of paper saying you have 4 years of college. If you just want to fly do not waste your time and money on a college in a non-placeable career field.

 

[Publishers]

PFT

Is this PFT. What I read was that what they want is someone ready to go and they are not willing to provide it so do not apply.

 

[KickSave]

I have some questions for everyone who has posted already. Currently I have no college credits, but I have (or will have) enough flight time and ratings to get about 16 credits, or whatever the local CC will give me. I also have a shipload of computer training that I should be able to convert to a few more credits. I am 35 now, so I have no false illusions of making the majors without a degree, and even with one, anytime soon. My question is this - if I am planning on an aviation career, probably as a regional captain being the ulitmate destination for me, what AS or BS degree would you recommend?

Would the Aviation degree be the most helpful in a flying career, or a business or some other degree be just as useful. Would my ratings be of any use in getting credits if I were to persue a degree other than an Aviation BS?

Thanks in advance for any input.

/Dave

 

[bobbysamd]

Riddle Professional Aeronautics degree

I have some questions for everyone who has posted already. Currently I have no college credits, but I have (or will have) enough flight time and ratings to get about 16 credits, or whatever the local CC will give me. I also have a shipload of computer training that I should be able to convert to a few more credits. I am 35 now, so I have no false illusions of making the majors without a degree, and even with one, anytime soon. My question is this - if I am planning on an aviation career, probably as a regional captain being the ulitmate destination for me, what AS or BS degree would you recommend?

Would the Aviation degree be the most helpful in a flying career, or a business or some other degree be just as useful. Would my ratings be of any use in getting credits if I were to persue a degree other than an Aviation BS?

Thanks in advance for any input.

I, personally, like an aeronautics degree. I was always impressed with the knowlege my ERAU students exhibited.

There are those who deride an aeronautics degree. They say that studying clouds will do you little good outside of aviation. However, Aeronautical Science majors at ERAU also learn English, math, and business, too, I believe. I am sure that other college aviation programs have similar requirements. English, math and business can certainly be used outside of aviation.

Riddle awards a degree in Professional Aeronautics. You get college credits for your ratings. Check it out. It may be exactly what you're looking for.