Hendrick Moter King Air Crash 2004

[hogdriver00]

Hendrick Motor King Air Crash 2004

Just read the mishap report. Anyone know much about this department? Pay or QOL. I see a lot of red flags in their organization and it seems like the NTSB is trying to make a point about how the operation is run. Any thoughts?

Hog

 

[h25b]

Just read the mishap report. Anyone know much about this department? Pay or QOL. I see a lot of red flags in their organization and it seems like the NTSB is trying to make a point about how the operation is run. Any thoughts?

Hog

I have read it as well and I bet you can figure out more about the place from reading that accident report than you ever will from anyone on this forum.

From reading the report I can't imagine how whoever was in charge of the department could still be employed.

I had a fed on board a few weeks ago and he was showing us exactly where they impacted. From what he was saying it was pretty unbelievable how they screwed it up so bad. It's sort of a pyramid shaped mountain with a flat top. The impact point is on a perfect extended centerline from the northbound runway (RNWY 30). http://www.airnav.com/depart?http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0604/05648R30.PDF

 

[User546]

I have read it as well and I bet you can figure out more about the place from reading that accident report than you ever will from anyone on this forum.

OK, I just looked up and read the accident report, and I'm a little confused about what your referencing about "figuring out more about the place." It didn't give anything but the accident flight description.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20041104X01760&ntsbno=IAD05MA006&akey=1

Would you like to elaborate more for us interested?

 

[h25b]

OK, I just looked up and read the accident report, and I'm a little confused about what your referencing about "figuring out more about the place." It didn't give anything but the accident flight description.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20041104X01760&ntsbno=IAD05MA006&akey=1

Would you like to elaborate more for us interested?

You need to read the full report...

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AAB0601.pdf

I found this part the most interesting...

During a postaccident interview, the captain who was hired as Hendrick​

Motorsports’ first pilot stated that, before the accident flight, the company’s flight department had never experienced any accidents, incidents, or violations. He also stated that the company never pressured any pilots to fly in bad weather and that the pilots always made the final decision regarding whether to fly in such conditions. The captain further stated that the flight department’s maintenance costs were never questioned and that the department’s budget was not limited because senior company management

“wanted it done right.”


[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]

Postaccident Actions​

​

After the accident, Hendrick Motorsports made immediate, short-term, and

long-term changes to the company’s organization, practices, and equipment. Some ofthese changes had already been planned or were in progress at the time of the accident and were further enhanced as a result of the company’s participation in the investigation.
Hendrick Motorsports installed an EGPWS on each aircraft. The EGPWS
provides pilots with a pictorial view of terrain (displayed on the radar screen, the multifunction display, or the GPS screen) in addition to aural warnings (as provided by the EGPWS). The company also installed a traffic alert collision avoidance system in each aircraft. Further, the company installed new Garmin GPS 400 units (with EGPWS) in Beech 1900 airplanes. In addition, the company moved the terrain depiction on the Gulfstream II from the global navigation system screen, which is mounted on the center console, to the radar screen on the front instrument panel, which is directly in the pilot’s
view.
Hendrick Motorsports created three new positions: aviation director, safety
program manager, and full-time dispatcher. (The company previously had a part-time dispatcher.) The company’s chief pilot was selected as aviation director and was responsible for the oversight of the entire aviation department. (The most senior company pilot was then promoted to chief pilot.) The responsibilities of safety program manager were added to the duties of a newly hired pilot who had a background in safety for a
major airline.
Along with the staffing changes, Hendrick Motorsports established a safety
committee that comprised staff members from the company’s operations, flight, and maintenance departments and hired an independent safety consulting firm to review the flight department’s operations. Also, Hendrick Motorsports consolidated the company’s standard operating procedures for all aircraft in its fleet and issued addendums to the procedures for each aircraft model. In addition, Hendrick Motorsports revised the company’s training plan to include two training sessions per year for each pilot. One session consisted of recurrent training, with 1 week of academic and flight simulator training. The other session consisted of 1 day of academic training for special circumstances (for example, cold weather considerations and mountain flying) and 1 day of emergency procedures training in a flight simulator.​

​

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[h25b]

In other words, according to this Captain they always wanted it done right but it's pretty obvious that they didn't start doing it right until they plowed a King Air in to a mountain...

 

[ultrarunner]

The captain further stated that the flight department’s maintenance costs were never questioned and that the department’s budget was not limited because senior company management
“wanted it done right.”​

Which is why they were flying with an expired GPS data base plugged inside a non-certified GPS receiver?

Give me a Fuking break!

Nascar has been and always will be about egos and cowboys. They could give two $hits about "doing it right". Unless it's about the car.

And you heard it right here Mr. Hendrick!

 

[User546]

Thanks H25B, that full report made a lot more sense. Sad...

And for two experienced pilots to botch up an approach so badly is almost hard to comprehend.

 

[Count Dracula]

I know the full details of the crash outside the NTSB Report. I will say this regarding the accident. The pilots that spoke up regarding the unsafe issues in the flight department before the accident and were interviewed during the NTSB Investigation and came clean were all mysteriously let go by the company 6 mos to a year after the crash. This was not about Cowboy Pilots. You will find those a short ride up to Mr. Sunday Money's Flight Department. This was about poor and incompetent aviation management. Most of these wanna-be manager's obtain their positions through luck, attrition and how much ass there willing to kiss. BTW, the manager got demoted to only flying as a Capt. on the GIII. He's still employed. But the pilots who spoke up.......are in the unemployment line.

 

[hogdriver00]

Nascar

Thanks for your replies. Basically want I expected.

Contrails: Are you saying that the CP that was promoted to DO is no longer the DO? What happened to the senior guy that all the sudden was CP material?

 

[Count Dracula]

Hog,

you need to dump your mail so I can PM you.

 

[GVFlyer]

It was a tragic accident which should not have occurred. I lost a life long friend, Joe Jackson, in that crash. Joe was a consumate helicopter pilot who survived Vietnam only to be killed in the back of a KingAir.

GV

 

[GoingHot]

You need to read the full report...

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AAB0601.pdf

h25b, where do you find detailed reports like this. On the NTSB accident queri page, you get a full report, but not with graphics and other detail.

When I read a report like this, I always try to put myself in their place to figure out under what conditions I would have done the same. On this one, I wonder what they were thinking when they crossed the OM at 4000, (well above 2600) and continued for 2 miles before starting down, leaving only 3 miles to get down? Why didn't they just tell ATC they need to make another turn in holding so they could cross OM at 2600? I always try to understand these things, so I won't go out and do the same thing. No one will ever know, but I wonder if they got distracted by something?

 

[flx757]

...where do you find detailed reports like this. On the NTSB accident queri page, you get a full report, but not with graphics and other detail.

That one, along with most other full accident reports, are avialable from a link on the NTSB home page. Go to www.ntsb.gov then click on "Accident Reports" under the Data and Information heading. That will bring you to their "Publications" page. From there, just go to the menu on the left and select "Most Recent" or "Older" from the Aviation section.

 

[GoingHot]

That one, along with most other full accident reports, are avialable from a link on the NTSB home page. Go to www.ntsb.gov then click on "Accident Reports" under the Data and Information heading. That will bring you to their "Publications" page. From there, just go to the menu on the left and select "Most Recent" or "Older" from the Aviation section.

Thanks flx757. I've been missing out on a lot. I thought they only did that level of detail when a Kennedy is on board.

 

[ultrarunner]

what they were thinking when they crossed the OM at 4000, (well above 2600) and continued for 2 miles before starting down, leaving only 3 miles to get down? Why didn't they just tell ATC they need to make another turn in holding so they could cross OM at 2600?

Because they likely didn't know where they were. It's quite likely they had the PF HSI on GPS mode, and were looking at dme distances from a different fix. Remember, they had an outdated database card and a non-certified GPS receiver. So who knows what was actually programmed in. We'll never know since they didn't have a CVR and we can't hear the approach brief.

But if you look at their profile descent, it's quite obvious they likely thought they were further ought from the MAP then they actually were, as there was absolutely no urgency to get down as it was a stablized descent.

 

[SotoShu]

Which is why they were flying with an expired GPS data base plugged inside a non-certified GPS receiver?

According to what I was told by those who are/were at Hendrick, expired/improper equipment along with the fact that the accident Captain routinely used it as his ONLY source of information in flight, without cross-checking other instruments, is why the crash occured. Complacency, bad decision-making, and generally poor airmanship. All respect to the deceased, but it is what it is. No other way to say it, unfortunately.

 

[GoingHot]

Because they likely didn't know where they were. It's quite likely they had the PF HSI on GPS mode, and were looking at dme distances from a different fix. Remember, they had an outdated database card and a non-certified GPS receiver.
But if you look at their profile descent, it's quite obvious they likely thought they were further ought from the MAP then they actually were, as there was absolutely no urgency to get down as it was a stablized descent.

That makes sense, but I was thinking maybe they had an ADF tuned to the LOM as well. I know it's old school, and ADFs are going away but when available, I still like to see that ADF needle reverse when passing the LOM.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

This accident bothered me deeply. I flew for a NASCAR operator back in 99. There were more cowboy pilots in King Airs than terrorist in Iraq. I’ve kept silent for a long time about the environment down in JQF.


Well try this one on for size:

The illustrious Chief Pilot who had his mug all over the cover of Pro Pilot a few months back is a prime example of NASCAR flight departments. He forged his log book from the first day he took a flight lesson. Told me so himself, face to face…

The people who own these planes care about $$ and fast cars, not airplanes and the pilots who fly them.