Help With Converting Military time

[Lifter]

Need some help from someone familiar with the AirTran Application breaking out flying time. I have the typical problem converting military time to the civilian equivalent.

Example AF Form 5 hour breakout: (Example Only)

C-17/IP
Total 2000
Primary 1000
Secondary 500
Instructor 250
Evaluator 50
Other 200

C-17/CP
Total 500
Primary 250
Secondary 150
Instructor 0
Evaluator 0
Other 50

AirTran required Fields:

PIC, SIC, Captain, and Instructor

Here is my question, would my PIC time equal the Captain time? Since in the AF the PIC (one signs for the jet) is the same as the Captain. I know not to count other time, but are they looking for a difference between PIC and Captain besides the obvious difference in the civilian sector.

Any former military guys out there figure out exactly how they expect you to break it out from the typical military flight records?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I never applied to Airtran, but what I basically did in all applications, was only count time that I signed for the aircraft as Captain or PIC time. I did however count any time that I was in that aircraft, whether it be in the seat or not, as PIC time so long as I was the one signing for the plane (Part 1 defined PIC). Then I took my total pilot time and subracted my PIC time and the result was the total I used as SIC time. 5 for 5 successful part 121 interviews with only one interviewer questioning how I calculated my time. My answer satisfied him. Good luck out there.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Actually, looking more closely at the options for Airtran, I think I would use the part 61 definition for PIC (qualified in aircraft and sole manipulator) and the part 1 definition for the Captain. I have not seen any other applications that have both choices.

 

[Lifter]

Since they want both PIC, Captain, and Instructor, the basic question is does PIC include captain and instructor since I signed for the aircraft as Instructor, AC and Evaluator? It will just look unusual to me if Captain and PIC times are identical.

Confused!

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Since they want both PIC, Captain, and Instructor, the basic question is does PIC include captain and instructor since I signed for the aircraft as Instructor, AC and Evaluator? It will just look unusual to me if Captain and PIC times are identical.

Confused!

That's why to me it looks like they are after a part 61 defined PIC total and a part 1 defined Captain total.

As far as the instructor stuff, what I did there was just let it stand alone and not subtract it from my "Captain" time. For example, let's say I had:

2500TT
1500 signed for aircraft
1200 sole manipulator
1300 in the seat, not flying
500 instructor
50 evaluator

I would put:

1200 PIC, 1500 captain, 1300 SIC, 550 Instructor.

something like that was easy in the navy, because we keep track of who is at the controls in our logbooks. If I'm not mistaken, Air Force logbooks dont, but that's okay. It's perfectly acceptable to estimate some numbers based on a conservative constant, just spell it out. It would help to have a sheet of paper in the front of your logbook explaining how you derived some of your numbers if it's a category that wasn't specifically logged over the years. The main thing is not to appear to be padding and to know how you did it so when/if they ask about it, you don't go "um, uh..." Etc. They know the military has different styles of record keeping.

 

[potrack]

I'd separate my military time like this:

Aircraft Commander / Instructor-
all Primary, Secondary, IP, and EP count as Pilot-in-command.

Co-Pilot-
all primary, Secondary time count as Second-in-command.

This was the best way I could figure it out from the FARs when I went through the process several years ago (ex AMC, T-1 guy).

Unfortunately "Other" time didn't count for squat. Only count Primary, Secondary, IP, EP as AMEL. I knew some guys who counted Other under PIC or SIC but I chose not to. I thought that the conservative route was easiest to explain in an interview and it didn't look like I was 'padding' anything.

As for "signing for the aircraft"....... I guess you could be conservative and only consider PIC any time that you were the "A code".

Good luck with your interview process.

 

[Sensei]

I have to agree with potrack. I got hired with AirTran and this is what I used.
All IP, MP time (throw out the other time--you could count it but just be conservative) count as PIC. Note: your EP time is included in your IP time, right? By the way EP time don't mean squat, they just want to see that you progressed to evaluator status.
Your MC, FC, FP time should count as your SIC--throw out the other time here as well.
For AirTran multiply the number of sorties you flew by 0.3 and add it to each appropriate column.
For your Instructor time use the number on your form 5--don't add multipliers--I don't think there's a whole lot of instructing going on during that .3/sortie anyway.

Hope that helps.

Sensei

 

[Lifter]

Sensi
My question is more about the Captian Time. If I count the Primary, Secondary, and IP time as AC for PIC, would it also count in for their Captian time block. If so, my PIC and Captain time will be the same.
I think I'm going to take my primary AC/IP time and 20% of my IP time and use that for PIC. Then the Captain time will be Primary, Secondary (AC only) and IP time. SIC will be Primary, Secondary CP time and 80% of IP time. That way, it will be closer to the FAR rules. PIC manipulator of Controls, Captian responsible for aircraft.

 

[Sensei]

You are correct as far as the times being the same. In my semi-professional opinion I would count the PIC as Captain time. It seems to work out in the end. As long as you can 'splain how you got your numbers you should be OK. On another note on my resumes I did not use a multiplier or count my other time--I just used raw data. When I filled out the apps for ATA and AirTran I used the conversions. Everything seemed to be OK with them--I start class on 29 Apr. Don't make things too hard. Just remember--carry the '1'. Good luck.

Sensei

 

[Sensei]

Where did you fly C-17s and T-1s, by the way?

 

[Lifter]

I flew C-17s at CHS and T-1s at CBM and RND.

Where did you find out it was exceptable to add .3/sortie for AirTran? Did you get hired at AT?

 

[Sensei]

I was hired 30 Sept 03 and start class on 29 Apr. I thought the app said you could add the multiplier for the times--been a while.

Did you know Gibb Gary or Rob Howe at CHS. How about Jeff Smith at CBM?

Sensei

 

[Mooseflyer]

I worked with Rob at both CHS and TCM - great guy!

 

[FL510GV]

check out this thread...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2425&highlight=military+conversion

The web address for the spreadsheet has changed to: http://mhesteve5.home.mindspring.com/Flight Time.htm


I got hired using this conversion.

Good Luck.

PS: I flew C-9s with Rob in the early 90's

 

[Sensei]

That's funny. I flew C-9s with Rob in the early 90's as well. I was at Scott from 92-96. Great guy!