Help with a question??

[A320Instructor]

I can't find any regulatory guidance with regards to an airline "DEPARTING EARLIER THAN SCHEDULED"

However, I seem to remember something from one of my stops along the way with regards to no earlier than "10 minutes"

Is there a reg/HBAT/SFAR covering this?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[A320Instructor]

Anyone??

 

[flx757]

I think that is more of a company directive than anything regulatory. Our company just published a change to the FOM allowing for departures up to 15 mins early.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

At jb, nmt 10 minutes early provided all ticketed customers and their accompanying baggage is onboard.

 

[Flyby1206]

I sent you a pm with the link for the FAA site I found. From the way I interpreted it you can leave up to 1hr before scheduled departure without any required report to ATC/ARTCC

 

[ptarmigan]

It has nothing to do with scheduled time, unless you've got a slot time (EDCT). What you can't do is push earlier than the release time your dispatcher put on the flight release. At FedEx, the releases are normally time stamped for one hour prior to scheduled departure for just this reason.

 

[Dogwood]

I can't find any regulatory guidance with regards to an airline "DEPARTING EARLIER THAN SCHEDULED"

However, I seem to remember something from one of my stops along the way with regards to no earlier than "10 minutes"

Is there a reg/HBAT/SFAR covering this?

Any help would be appreciated.

Look up Common Carrier, you may come up with something.

 

[Mach 80]

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What you can't do is push earlier than the release time your dispatcher put on the flight release.
------------

My understanding is that you can if your ops manual says you can.

 

[ptarmigan]

Your ops manual would not be in comliance with Part 121 or the Ops Specs if that's what it says. Better check that language carefully.

 

[UPSer]

At UPS we can go up to 15 minutes earlier than scheduled without an amended release.

 

[ptarmigan]

Don't confuse "earlier than scheduled" with earlier than the time on your flight release. The regulation is very specific. There is one exception for supplementals that allows for the Captain to dispatch the flight under certain circumstances, but that pretty much only applies to the non-skeds.

 

[chperplt]

Don't forget EAS routes. Not sure where you would find the textual content of the rule, but you cannot leave early at all unless every seat has an ass in it.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Don't confuse "earlier than scheduled" with earlier than the time on your flight release. The regulation is very specific. There is one exception for supplementals that allows for the Captain to dispatch the flight under certain circumstances, but that pretty much only applies to the non-skeds.

He's not confusing it. At UPS we can block 15 mins prior to "release time" without an amendment (for 121 flight ops) ... been this way for years. My guess is it is indeed an ops specs directive. Perhaps each carrier petitions for a "waiver" to the regulation you are referring to?

BBB

 

[ptarmigan]

Look at the time the dispatcher actually signs it. There are two times on your release. One is in the data block, where it shows the scheduled time. That is NOT the release time. The other is where the dispatchers signature block is. That is the "release time" under the regulation. Been a while since I looked at a UPS release, but I recall discussing this one night on the jumpseat pre 9/11 and seeing it then, but I do admit to not being fully awake at the time!

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Look at the time the dispatcher actually signs it. There are two times on your release. One is in the data block, where it shows the scheduled time. That is NOT the release time. The other is where the dispatchers signature block is. That is the "release time" under the regulation. Been a while since I looked at a UPS release, but I recall discussing this one night on the jumpseat pre 9/11 and seeing it then, but I do admit to not being fully awake at the time!

Straight from our FOM:

"A flight's release time is normally its scheduled departure time. A flight may depart up to 15 mins. earlier than its release time WITHOUT an ARTR."

Obviously you are mistaken ptarmigan. :smash:

BBB

 

[ptarmigan]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time, but, sometimes airlines and POIs make mistakes also. As this particular issue is actually a regulation, and ops specs do not allow for exceptions to regulations (like the FOM, are supposed to only be more restrictive than the regs), I do wonder about this one. I would think someone from IPA might want to explore the issue further.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I would think someone from IPA might want to explore the issue further.

Respectfully, I thunk you'd be thinki'n wrong! Most line slugs could absolutely care less if UPS is in compliance with Federal Aviation Regulations. In fact, we'd cheer with joy if UPS was shutdown, if only temporarily! We're more concerned with which pub has the coldest/cheapest beer on layover. We leave those pesky details to our overpaid secretaries ... er, I mean management pilots. Personally, I can't wait to shut this operation down legally via a strike ... gee, we've only been "negotiating" for 4 years now!

BBB

 

[Uppercrust]

! Most line slugs could absolutely care less if UPS is in compliance with Federal Aviation Regulations.

Wow, sounds like a professional to me!

In fact, we'd cheer with joy if UPS was shutdown, if only temporarily!

How much is your hourly rate then??

We're more concerned with which pub has the coldest/cheapest beer on layover. We leave those pesky details to our overpaid secretaries ... er, I mean management pilots. Personally, I can't wait to shut this operation down legally via a strike ... gee, we've only been "negotiating" for 4 years now!

What would you do then. Pick strawberries??

 

[ptarmigan]

Actually, your IPA safety committee does a very good job on this kind of thing. Remember, although a pilot's union is political and deals with contract negotiations, there is another side that is not political and deals with safety and regulatory issues, such as this one.

Respectfully, I thunk you'd be thinki'n wrong! Most line slugs could absolutely care less if UPS is in compliance with Federal Aviation Regulations. In fact, we'd cheer with joy if UPS was shutdown, if only temporarily! We're more concerned with which pub has the coldest/cheapest beer on layover. We leave those pesky details to our overpaid secretaries ... er, I mean management pilots. Personally, I can't wait to shut this operation down legally via a strike ... gee, we've only been "negotiating" for 4 years now!

BBB