Help Me

[BOHICAgain]

ok just trying to find input from different people. I just got figured out what my 2005 W2 will be. I just finished first year at a regional and I made a wooping $ 20,500 before taxes (not including per-diem) Thats it its pathetic I know but that first year pay. Second year pay isnt that much better where I am at. Can anyone please tell me how in the world people can survive on this kind of pay. Having a max of 12 days off a month while commuting. Scheds not commuter freindly so I only get to be at home max about 9 full days off at home. A future so bleak that its pathetic. I can only hope to get upgrade within 3 years from now.. but then what be stuck at a regional for the next 10 years.. There are captains where I am at with 6 years getting 11 days off. That not where I want to be..... So please anyone enlighten me why is everybody still here. I know this job is awsome from door close to door open but I just barely take care of myself with this kind of money i cant even imagine what it must be like to have kids and see them almost never.. and to those that are fed up with the profession where are you going....


venting over..

 

[Nancy Pryor]

Wal*mart is hiring!

Wal*mart is hiring.

http://www.walmartstores.com/GlobalWMStoresWeb/navigate.do?catg=218

Wal*mart says: "Our average hourly wage for regular full-time associates in the U.S. is $9.68 an hour, almost double the federal minimum wage."

Let's see... $9.68 x 40 hours a week x 52 weeks = $20134.40 a year.

Interesting... $20134.40 a year / 12 months = $1677.86 per month.

Hmmm... $1677.86 / 75 hours a month (typical regional) = $22.37/hour.

Wow, that's more than most regionals pay shiny jet FO's the first year or two, and all you have to do is stand at the door of Wal*mart and say "hello" to the customers as they enter the store. Just like on the shiny jet, but you don't have to fly the store to another city once all the customers are in. Obviously these Wal*mart employees are highly overpaid :laugh: just ask one.

 

[Rabble]

Doesn't look so bad to me.

Video: http://walmartstores.com/GlobalWMStoresWeb/navigate.do?catg=285

 

[DetoXJ]

ok just trying to find input from different people. I just got figured out what my 2005 W2 will be. I just finished first year at a regional and I made a wooping $ 20,500 before taxes (not including per-diem) Thats it its pathetic I know but that first year pay. Second year pay isnt that much better where I am at. Can anyone please tell me how in the world people can survive on this kind of pay. Having a max of 12 days off a month while commuting. Scheds not commuter freindly so I only get to be at home max about 9 full days off at home. A future so bleak that its pathetic. I can only hope to get upgrade within 3 years from now.. but then what be stuck at a regional for the next 10 years.. There are captains where I am at with 6 years getting 11 days off. That not where I want to be..... So please anyone enlighten me why is everybody still here. I know this job is awsome from door close to door open but I just barely take care of myself with this kind of money i cant even imagine what it must be like to have kids and see them almost never.. and to those that are fed up with the profession where are you going....


venting over..

Your the one who took the job knowing darn well what the pay and bennies were. Go look yourself in the mirror. It's people like you that cause the entry level pay to be so poor. Stop taking the jobs and pay might go up. It's all suuply and demand. I'm not saying right or wrong but don't take the job if you don't like the pay. Get a clue and stop venting. You knew darn well what you were getting into.

 

[urflyingme?!]

Your the one who took the job knowing darn well what the pay and bennies were. Go look yourself in the mirror. It's people like you that cause the entry level pay to be so poor. Stop taking the jobs and pay might go up. It's all suuply and demand. I'm not saying right or wrong but don't take the job if you don't like the pay. Get a clue and stop venting. You knew darn well what you were getting into.

How do u function on a daily basis with such a complete lack of logical reasoning? You have no idea where or for whom this guy works, but "People like you..." BS! Ya how about everyone justs stops taking jobs, IDIOCY! If your flying is half as bad as you logic you'd crash before starting engines!

Back to our topic, who is that chick on your avatar BOHICA? And good luck man, I know your pain....

 

[urflyingme?!]

PS,
Instead of no one taking jobs how about every Captain in america quits his jobs, instantly upgrading every FO. (This makes sense because Captains have most likely been around in most cases much longer than your average FO. This is important because they most likely voted on a contract that screws the new guys while padding their own pockets down the road... Not saying it;s wrong at all, just true...)

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Brand scope would take care of this problem.

 

[DetoXJ]

Ok then big shot. How about your put your $$$ where your mouth is and quit. Your the one being the cry baby. I'm not complaining. If you are too stupid to know what you are getting yourself into then don't expect the Captains to feel sorry for you little boo-hoo woe is me story. Subway is always looking for new Sandwich Artists. One thing is for sure, the airline industry for sure wont miss you. ERAU & UND Ect. Guys/Gals are lined up for miles to replace you at horse crap entry level wages. Can you say Supply & Demand? I think you are the one who needs a reality check on your logic.

 

[urflyingme?!]

Hey can u show me where I complained? I don't have a problem with my job, it COULD be better in many ways, but it is what it is... Your posts are especially suprising seeing the regional equipment you list.

 

[Going2Baja]

It still shocks me how all these schools are offering jobs to their graduates for near nothing pay and the students are putting up $40k plus to do this. The glamour and life style of airline pilots is long gone and it's only getting worse. Two major airlines are in court trying to hold on to the scope that they built. The regional guys may think this is great now - but guess what? Let's say this happens and the regionals grow even faster than they are and start flying 100 seaters. You might see a bump in top pay to the $100k mark. There is still no pension, you're still getting 12 days off and flying to crap destinations and even better - there is NO major to apply to to make the real $$ BECAUSE the regionals have taking all the flying away.

Catch 22 bro....Enjoy the life style or get out of aviation. It's not the job our fathers had!

Baja.

 

[jehtplane]

Wal*mart is hiring.

http://www.walmartstores.com/GlobalWMStoresWeb/navigate.do?catg=218

Wal*mart says: "Our average hourly wage for regular full-time associates in the U.S. is $9.68 an hour, almost double the federal minimum wage."

Let's see... $9.68 x 40 hours a week x 52 weeks = $20134.40 a year.

Interesting... $20134.40 a year / 12 months = $1677.86 per month.

Hmmm... $1677.86 / 75 hours a month (typical regional) = $22.37/hour.

Wow, that's more than most regionals pay shiny jet FO's the first year or two, and all you have to do is stand at the door of Wal*mart and say "hello" to the customers as they enter the store. Just like on the shiny jet, but you don't have to fly the store to another city once all the customers are in. Obviously these Wal*mart employees are highly overpaid :laugh: just ask one.

Yes but you are not working 40 hours a week, and if you count sitting in a hotel room working, than I would suggest a new profession.

 

[Palerider957]

ok just trying to find input from different people. I just got figured out what my 2005 W2 will be. I just finished first year at a regional and I made a wooping $ 20,500 before taxes (not including per-diem) Thats it its pathetic I know but that first year pay. Second year pay isnt that much better where I am at. Can anyone please tell me how in the world people can survive on this kind of pay. Having a max of 12 days off a month while commuting. Scheds not commuter freindly so I only get to be at home max about 9 full days off at home. A future so bleak that its pathetic. I can only hope to get upgrade within 3 years from now.. but then what be stuck at a regional for the next 10 years.. There are captains where I am at with 6 years getting 11 days off. That not where I want to be..... So please anyone enlighten me why is everybody still here. I know this job is awsome from door close to door open but I just barely take care of myself with this kind of money i cant even imagine what it must be like to have kids and see them almost never.. and to those that are fed up with the profession where are you going....



venting over..

$20,500 and 12 days off! I'll do your job to $15,000 and 8 days off

 

[Nancy Pryor]

Yes but you are not working 40 hours a week, and if you count sitting in a hotel room working, than I would suggest a new profession.

How many duty hours do you put in during an average week genius? I wasn't talking about block time (yeah I know Mesa has 'issues' with that). If you consider duty time (you should, it's the time you really spend on the job) instead of block time, who is paid better for the time you put in, you or a Wal*mart greeter? I think most pilots reading my post probably had no trouble at all understanding the point of the Wal*mart comparison, including the obvious fact that there are differences in how hours are counted between the two jobs, I hope this clarifies things enough for you that you can understand it too.

 

[aviatornick]

everyone starts at the bottom. everyone was once a cfi and probably doesn't want to go back to that if you'rein a regional, i sure don't. the pay isn't the greatest, BUT there's always other options. you won't be a captain flying a 777 right out of college. if u want more money and good flight time go do cargo. AIRNET is hiring like crazy and pays a hell of a lot better than regionals. i don't know about you, but i reseached my job before i took it. i knew about days off, i knew about spending countless nights in hotels, i knew about the pay. so my choices were sit there and get paid 14$/hr flight instructing with little to no students........orrrr........fly for a regional for slightly better wages and definetely better equipment.

 

[HMR]

I'm not a "Regional" guy but saw this thread when I hit "New Posts".

I agree with DetoXJ. Did you think your pay was going to be something different? I remember as a student pilot I looked up salary info for regionals and wondered how anyone could survive on 15-20K a year. Did you do ANY research before accepting the job? Did the HR dept lie about your payscale and schedule?

Why did you take the job if you don't like the pay and QOL?

 

[IHateMgmt]

everyone starts at the bottom. everyone was once a cfi and probably doesn't want to go back to that if you'rein a regional, i sure don't. the pay isn't the greatest, BUT there's always other options. you won't be a captain flying a 777 right out of college. if u want more money and good flight time go do cargo. AIRNET is hiring like crazy and pays a hell of a lot better than regionals. i don't know about you, but i reseached my job before i took it. i knew about days off, i knew about spending countless nights in hotels, i knew about the pay. so my choices were sit there and get paid 14$/hr flight instructing with little to no students........orrrr........fly for a regional for slightly better wages and definetely better equipment.

Thank you! I just don't understand how some people can have such tunnel vision when they're taking their shinny jet job, that they don't even realize how much it pays. Didn't you talk to anyone who worked there first? Do a little simple math and figure out your pay. Know what you are getting into... other than the airplane you're gonna be stuck in for the better part of your next ten years. And for the CFI's out there here's a hint, it really doesn't matter what type you fly... they all are basically the same. I'd rather fly a piper cub than an RJ. Just can't find anyone to pay me for it. Alright, I'll stop now.

 

[aviatornick]

who has tunnel vision?

 

[CapnVegetto]

Problem is, flying an RJ for $15K a year beats instructing for $10K a year. It's a step up. 'Ol Jonny O at Mesa says he still pays his RJ FO's TOO MUCH. Why? Because he can still fill up any class at the drop of a hat. Riddle, UND, etc. isn't helping, putting out hundreds of kids that are willing to fly for nothing. I can't get mad at 'em because they just don't know any better. They're young and naive. 1 year in the industry will change that fast. It's all about supply and demand. When flight instructors become hard to find, wages will go up. When JO can't find people to work for him, wages will go up. Econ 101....supply and demand.

 

[BenderGonzales]

CapnVegetto said it.

Now the existing RJ pilots who are willing to sell their souls in order to bring 70,90,100+ seat "RJs" onto the property for a fraction of DC9, F100, F28, 737-200 pay....

... well they have no such excuse.

 

[jehtplane]

How many duty hours do you put in during an average week genius? I wasn't talking about block time (yeah I know Mesa has 'issues' with that). If you consider duty time (you should, it's the time you really spend on the job) instead of block time, who is paid better for the time you put in, you or a Wal*mart greeter? I think most pilots reading my post probably had no trouble at all understanding the point of the Wal*mart comparison, including the obvious fact that there are differences in how hours are counted between the two jobs, I hope this clarifies things enough for you that you can understand it too.

That depends on the schedule I could hold, since you are obviously new to the industry, did you think you should hold 3 day trips with 17 or 18 days off a month your first year? Sure you have some long duty days 12-14 hours but are you really working during that time? I am pretty sure that someone in the retail industry is earning everybit of that 8 hour work day. But I guess you are really lazy, and think standing in the fast food line, or sitting in the crew lounge between turns, or in your case hoisting the sail, work, then I would suggest a career change. Do I think we are on duty long hours sometimes, yes, but to compare what you make and the hours you work to somebody at Walmart does not make a whole lot of sense. Good Luck you are gonna need it!

 

[Swaayze]

That depends on the schedule I could hold, since you are obviously new to the industry, did you think you should hold 3 day trips with 17 or 18 days off a month your first year? Sure you have some long duty days 12-14 hours but are you really working during that time? I am pretty sure that someone in the retail industry is earning everybit of that 8 hour work day. But I guess you are really lazy, and think standing in the fast food line, or sitting in the crew lounge between turns, or in your case hoisting the sail, work, then I would suggest a career change. Do I think we are on duty long hours sometimes, yes, but to compare what you make and the hours you work to somebody at Walmart does not make a whole lot of sense. Good Luck you are gonna need it!

You've got to be kidding, right? You don't consider time between flights work time? A better comparison is some happy medium between duty time and TAFB. How many hours a month is a 9-5er really away from home for their pay? It is certainly not 250-450 hours. Are you working all those hours, no...but you sure as hell aren't home taking care of business or seeing your family. Let's not be ridiculous about giving management more of our time for free.

 

[jehtplane]

You've got to be kidding, right? You don't consider time between flights work time? A better comparison is some happy medium between duty time and TAFB. How many hours a month is a 9-5er really away from home for their pay? It is certainly not 250-450 hours. Are you working all those hours, no...but you sure as hell aren't home taking care of business or seeing your family. Let's not be ridiculous about giving management more of our time for free.

I may be at work but I am certainly not working while chillin in the crew lounge! Surely you knew before you became a pilot that you would be away from home as you put 250-450 hours per month, didn't you? I truely hope so!

 

[fly4ever]

jehtplane,

My company considers me to be on duty - WORKING - while I am between flights. In fact they can call to reschedule me if they see fit and it's legal even when I'm "chillin in the crew lounge." I don't get paid for time between flights yet I am available to the company. I consider that to be working since I'm not able to be home and off the clock so to speak.

It's funny and sad that you and others want to say, "surely you knew before you became a pilot...." I don't think that a lot of people know how it is in this profession before they take the job. If they did, maybe they wouldn't be so quick to buy their way into the right seat at an airline, putting themselves into debt just to find out the return isn't so great afterall.

 

[jehtplane]

jehtplane,

My company considers me to be on duty - WORKING - while I am between flights. In fact they can call to reschedule me if they see fit and it's legal even when I'm "chillin in the crew lounge." I don't get paid for time between flights yet I am available to the company. I consider that to be working since I'm not able to be home and off the clock so to speak.

It's funny and sad that you and others want to say, "surely you knew before you became a pilot...." I don't think that a lot of people know how it is in this profession before they take the job. If they did, maybe they wouldn't be so quick to buy their way into the right seat at an airline, putting themselves into debt just to find out the return isn't so great afterall.

If you seriously do not know what it is like in this profession before you get into it then YOU ARE A MORON, DO RESEARCH ON THE PROSPECTIVE COMPANIES BEFORE YOU GO THERE. Nobody pays well first year THAT IS WHY YOU ARE JUNIOR, YOU WILL HAVE CRAP SCHEDULES SO STFU AND quit whining or find a new profession, for you I would suggest Wendy's

 

[FN FAL]

If you seriously do not know what it is like in this profession before you get into it then YOU ARE A MORON, DO RESEARCH ON THE PROSPECTIVE COMPANIES BEFORE YOU GO THERE. Nobody pays well first year THAT IS WHY YOU ARE JUNIOR, YOU WILL HAVE CRAP SCHEDULES SO STFU AND quit whining or find a new profession, for you I would suggest Wendy's

He's not a moron. I would bet that if you could replay this chap's life back on a dvd player and a television, I would portend that every time he asked someone what the career was like, each and every cult member he asked said, "It's the best non-job in the world!"

 

[fly4ever]

jehtplane,

I have been in the airline industry for over five years and have been a working pilot for over 18. Don't throw your drivel at me. I am a captain at my airline and I have the privilege of flying with a lot of very good people - you wouldn't have a chance of being included in that group. People with your attitude and insulting behavior are a big cause of the problems we have in this industry.

Just because you may have known or don't know what this industry is like before you get in it should not be an excuse for being treated the way we get treated at our respective companies. My company is in bankruptcy as an excuse to negate our union contracts. I don't think anyone can describe what it is like to go through this kind of treatment. You don't know until you have been through it yourself.

Get over yourself. Your behavior and comments are disgusting.

 

[fastbird]

Oh, 9 days off at home, BWAAAAAY.

In my corporate suit monkey days, I got 8 days off a month but usually only got to take 6 off because "something hot" was always needing to get done.

Didn't you know what being in this business meant before you go hired?

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Problem is, flying an RJ for $15K a year beats instructing for $10K a year. It's a step up. 'Ol Jonny O at Mesa says he still pays his RJ FO's TOO MUCH. Why? Because he can still fill up any class at the drop of a hat. Riddle, UND, etc. isn't helping, putting out hundreds of kids that are willing to fly for nothing. I can't get mad at 'em because they just don't know any better. They're young and naive. 1 year in the industry will change that fast. It's all about supply and demand. When flight instructors become hard to find, wages will go up. When JO can't find people to work for him, wages will go up. Econ 101....supply and demand.

Did you get turned down by UND or ERAU or something?? Every chance you get you bash these schools, among others. You khow who the people are perpetuating the myth about aviation jobs? The 747 captain who comes to these schools and gives "speeches" about how they make/made 300K+ and only work 10 days a month. These schools turn out no better or worse pilots than mom and pop or even military routes. They do turn out a lot, but not a lot of that a lot go on to airlines. Why because the real bone heads can't make it, just like the 61 world.

I guess my real question is, have you ever toured or even better done any training at any of your so hated schools or did you just form and opinion using your powers of foresite?

 

[CapnVegetto]

Did you get turned down by UND or ERAU or something?? Every chance you get you bash these schools, among others. You khow who the people are perpetuating the myth about aviation jobs? The 747 captain who comes to these schools and gives "speeches" about how they make/made 300K+ and only work 10 days a month. These schools turn out no better or worse pilots than mom and pop or even military routes. They do turn out a lot, but not a lot of that a lot go on to airlines. Why because the real bone heads can't make it, just like the 61 world.

I guess my real question is, have you ever toured or even better done any training at any of your so hated schools or did you just form and opinion using your powers of foresite?

I am referring to every little $hithead that thinks he's superior because he went to "Riddle." I'm referring to every f-ing time I've been sitting in a class and some f*cker raises his hand and starts a sentence with "Well at Riddle we did this..." I'm referring to every little prick that is more than happy to shell out $100K for training and then work for nothing just to build time, thereby taking a job away from someone more qualified. Did I get turned down by Riddle? Nope. To tell you the truth I didn't even know what Riddle was until I was in college at Auburn, and the Riddle guys were standing around at the airport during SAFECON one year flipping the bird to everybody else practicing landings. Why the hell would I want to pay $100K+ for training at Riddle when I could pay less than half that most anywhere else and get just as good, if not better training. Why do I hate Riddle? Because of what they put out. Hundreds of kids that are willing to work for nothing. Is it the kids' fault? Nope. It's Riddle's fault for basically lying their a$$ off about everything in the industry. It's people like Kit Darby's fault for spewing out bull$hit like "10,000 new jobs this year!!!!!" 8000 of them are probably jobs like SWA, JetBlue, CAL, that these kids have no shot at. They fail to mention things like this......just like they fail to mention that you're going to work for nothing until you make captain, have a pretty good shot at a furlough, 1000 PIC turbine is the MINIMUM to get on with any decent carrier, and have fun competing with the other 20,000 guys out there that are more qualified for you and looking for jobs. Pay is down, pensions are going away, mainline jobs are vanishing, work rules are nowhere near as good as they used to be, and almost everyone is losing money. Yet they just lie lie lie lie, take naive people's money and laugh their a$$es off all the way to the bank.

Like that rant??

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Ahhh, forget it, Im becoming what I hate. Your entitled to your opinion I respect that.


ps

Go Steelers, even if the refs tried to give it to Indy!