Hello all, thoughts and opinions needed

[FSIGRAD]

I just couldn't help but comment on the above advertisement for ATP......specifically the time table of "from private to all your instructor ratings in 3 or 4 months!" What kind of diploma factory are you guys running? 3 months from freshly minted private to MEII? I not sure how that works...and what kind of instructor comes out of that program? I really don't want to debate which 141 program is best (ATP lost their 141 status for forging student paper work) But I will quote my college economics professor "there is no such thing as a free lunch" You get what you pay for, and if you pay for a MEII in 3 months you will end up with just that, a very inexpierenced instructor who rushed through all his/her tickets. Ask yourself, as a student would you want that person as your instructor?

 

[kilomike]

Dear Runninhorn,

Bobbysamd wrote some very helpful information for you. Pursuing a pilot career is very difficult at best and not everyone can make it into the major airlines. There is the situation of years of low pay and many expenses such as hotel costs etc. when interviewing for jobs.

I have decided to leave the airline industry and fly for pleasure only, and perhaps in the future as a part of supporting my own business ventures. With your business degree, you could very well obtain the Private, instrument and multi and put that to good use supporting your own company. I know someone who owns a wire company, and years ago he flew an Aerostar to support his business. He is still very active in general aviation. Not once did I ever hear him complain about his great life flying for fun and for business, or lamenting that he did not get on with the airlines. He is one of the happiest people I know. I also can tell of an electrician/pilot friend who did interview with the major airlines years ago and was accepted by all the majors with whom he interviewed. He ended up declining to join the airlines after he weighed out the pros and cons. He ended up making millions in the electrical trade. At one time he used a Cessna 310 to support his business. Again, no regrets on his part. Going for a trade after college is one way to become highly successful and able to well afford a fantastic lifestyle. One of my father's friends with whom he went to college got his economics degree, took up plumbing and ended up playing polo for a hobby and living in a splendid mansion. Whatever you do you can always enjoy flying for pleasure. It does not have to be a means to an end.

I would encourage you regardless of your ultimate decision to at least go for the private and instrument ratings. Flying is great pleasure and you will never be sorry that you can fly for fun. Flying someplace for the classic $100 hamburger with friends or taking a day trip someplace is so enjoyable! Getting the ratings is never a waste. Even though I no longer fly for a career, I am sure glad I have the ratings!

Fly safe and never stop enjoying the blue skies above

Kilomike

 

[Wiggums]

I just couldn't help but comment on the above advertisement for ATP......specifically the time table of "from private to all your instructor ratings in 3 or 4 months!" What kind of diploma factory are you guys running? 3 months from freshly minted private to MEII? I not sure how that works...and what kind of instructor comes out of that program? I really don't want to debate which 141 program is best (ATP lost their 141 status for forging student paper work) But I will quote my college economics professor "there is no such thing as a free lunch" You get what you pay for, and if you pay for a MEII in 3 months you will end up with just that, a very inexpierenced instructor who rushed through all his/her tickets. Ask yourself, as a student would you want that person as your instructor?

I think that you might be mistaken on ATP losing 141 status, as far back as I know ATP was NEVER a 141 school. Maybe your thinking about ATA, a school that did lose 141 status. Also, it is possible to go from private to MEII in 95 days. You'll fly every day, and study every night, but all of the former ATP students I've meet have been pretty sharp. Think about this, it takes a reasonable intelligent person to get their ratings in 95 days, if they can't hack it they get washed out.

We can sit here all day and call ATP and Sheble's diploma mills or pilot factories, however, it comes down to how hard the student worked, and how good their instructor was.

 

[FSIGRAD]

You are right I should of done my homework before going on a rant! I was thinking of ATA not ATP. My apologizes, my intent was not to bash a school without reason. I just honestly feel that timetable is way too fast. The purpose of professional flight training, especially at the instructor level should be to build solid foundations of knowledge and expierence. Not to rush through taking every shortcut. Lets say you took your private at a school that offers a fast 2 week program, then right into the 95 day program. You could have someone who is teaching instruments in a multi-engine airplanes who only starting flying 3.5 months ago? I guess it's all legal but I personally would not recomend that course of action.
Thats just my thoughts on the subject, I could be wrong!

 

[bobbysamd]

Accelerated training?

I second FSIGRAD from the standpoint that he and I have FSI in common. I taught at FSI. FSI has a six-month program, zero time to Commercial Multi Instrument. That course alone is a lot to learn in six months simply because it takes time for your mind to absorb so much new information and to learn an unnatural skill (yeah, even for you Chuck Yeager types ). Some people can absorb learning and training like a sponge. Some people can and will learn, but need time. These people will fall behind or become discouraged or both, and will be sent home or quit, unfairly. The rest of us learn at an average rate, no matter how smart we are or how hard we study or how well we apply ourselves.

You indeed want to build a solid foundation, and experience, because the rest of your flying career will rest upon it. 95 days is very little time to go from Private to MEI, in my $30K flight school cost opinion. Think about it. How many different kinds of flying conditions can you experience as a student in three months?

I will say the pros of such a course is it can prepare you for the real world of aviation. Once you get to ground school, the instructors will place your mouth against a fire hose and turn on the flow of information. You need to know how to learn to keep up with an airline ground school.

Once again, just my $30K flight school cost opinion.

 

[capnflyright]

If you want it , it will happen

I just read your posting and I am glad that you are thinking of pursuing a flying career. One of the greatest inventions in world history has been the airplane which hasn't even reached its one hundredth birthday yet. To gain an appreciation for aviation and find out if aviation is for you I would suggest that you start researching aviation from its infancy. I know this sounds corny, but you find that the pioneers of yesteryear were faced with the same dilemmas that we as pilots battle with today. People thought that wilbur and orville were crazy and heavy-than-air flight would only remain a myth. Can you imagine what it was like to survive in the 1920's flying an old Curtiss Jenny into barns on a daily basis? I pursued aviation with a passion and I still haven't pursued a college education. When I became a flight instructor I was 19 and had started a family. I worked line service, mowed the airport lawn, was an A&P apprentice and instructed as part of the same job and I was pulling in a whopping $800 per month. Don't let the aviation industry doldrums get in your way of pursuing the best occupation that a person can attain. Just thinking about the ever expanding realm of aviation gets me giddy. With all of the uncertainties in todays life the adage "Take a leap of faith" still holds true. I can't tell you that everything will be hunky-dory once you pursuing a flying position , but I will tell you that aviation hasn't let me down yet. Good luck to you and I hope that you will pursue a flying career.

 

[Snapperhead]

Go to your local airport and ask for an introductory flight. It's usually about 40 bucks and if you like it and don't puke, then continue your journey. Later.

 

[starchkr]

FSIGRAD,

I attended ATP back in the summer of 1999 and still have nothing but good things to say about the program.

I will tell you now that every school out there including FSI can train their students in 95 days from their private. The only reason they do not is because they have to work in a college degree at the same time. It would be like telling students that they would spend their first 3 and a half years studying and only the last 95 days at the school flying, how much fun would that be!?!?

It was very difficult going through the program. Studying all of the time, not much time for personal things, and flying nearly every day. I know of a couple of people that could not keep up with the learning curve that is required, and they were removed from the program. If you don't learn fast and retain the info then you will not make it there. I personnaly found my college experience much easier than training at ATP. In college you have a long period of time to go over and learn the information required, and if you fail a class you can retake it. Well not ATP, learning fast is required, and if you fail to accomplish their standards you are gone.

Also to the post that asked how much experience you can attain from that short of time, well there was plenty. With their true cross country flights, a student can expect to fly from the west coast to the east coast or vice versa many times. I experienced diversions for fog, flight through t-storms, high altitude operations with trips to Colorado and the clear and a million trips. Although the weather at the common training facility may not change much on a day to day basis, when you get into aircraft where you can actually go somewhere, you will actually encounter some weather.

I definately reccommend the school to anyone who can handle it.