Helicopter question

[ThomasR]

Gunship Pilots

OK, now I have a question.

I flew slicks in the military so I know very little about the mechanics of a gunship. While in the National Guard our unit had LOH's [oh-58], Huey's [uh-205h] and Charley Model Guns. Once a year the gun platoon would do in-flight and static firing from a concrete helipad to meet annual qualifications.

One year at a static firing a ship was positioned on the helipad with its guns [side mounted mini guns] in the stowed position. Luckily the safety officer was there and had quadrant off a safe zone around the perimeter of the aircraft for spectators [they arrange these events just at dusk when the low areas of the terrain are in dark shadow which provides a good backdrop for the tracer to target ranging but also a light show spectacular].

The ship was at full operating RPM with one pilot right seat. When he armed the system the right gun came up firing and once it hit its forward sighting position it quit firing . Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.! The left side came up normal.

The rounds cut the concrete pad in half [at least 6" of concrete and whatever they put in it and under it]. Dust, lots of smoke, concrete shrapnel, sparks, phosphorus, grass, stones, dirt flying everywhere. It shocked everyone present ; we all hit the dirt thinking this is definitely not normal. The crew chief went nuts thinking the pilot had gotten hit [which he played up by lying limp and motionless until the chief yanked the door open]. He was ok just sucking all the attention he could out of the incident. But the side of the aircraft had major shrapnel damage.

I never did find out what the problem was. Has this ever happened to other systems you know of? These systems are all ancient history by now but do you have any idea what might cause a gun to come up firing like that? Don't they have some sort of fail safe component?

 

[Typhoon1244]

Another perfect example why I fly the Apache.

I heard a horro story about flying the Apache the other day...is it true a lot of guys are only getting about 100 hours a year???

 

[weekendwarrior]

Can't speak for the "gunships" (I use that loosely for an OH58!) you are speaking of. But, with the Apache, in order for the gun to fire, there is a ground inhibit that is tied to the squat switch. You have to push a ground override buttin, arm the system, and have the gun selected to fire. It would be very difficult to accidentally fire the gun of the Apache on the ground. Plus, anyone in their right mind wouldn't even think about arming the system on the ground with live rounds on board. Also, the Apache shoots a 30MM, which has just a bit more kick than a minigun you might put on a 58.

 

[weekendwarrior]

I heard a horro story about flying the Apache the other day...is it true a lot of guys are only getting about 100 hours a year???

If you are talking about active duty, it is not true, simply because you have to maintain minimum currency which is 140/year anyway. The numbers I've been hearing from the active duty folks that are not deployed, is about 200-300/year. Go to combat and you can at least double that.

Now, National Guard units sometimes have maintenance problems, etc that they can't keep up with. When a unit transistions to a new aircraft, there are some growing pains waiting for new aircraft. In this case, pilots are put on waivers for flight time and mostly fill the time with simulator hours.

There are alot of jokers out there flying sissy airframes like the 58 and the 60 (chinook guys are cool even though they fly a dumpster getting screwed by two palm trees) who like to talk smack about the maintenance of the Apache. (sorry, couldn't resist the opportunity to poke fun at the 58 and 60 drivers)True, it is a very complex aircraft, and requires much maintenance. They do break sometimes, just like all military aircraft. But every career Apache pilot I have spoken to never mentioned they didn't get the flight time. These are 10-12 year guys with 3000 hours of Apache time.

 

[FN FAL]

I like the civil service exam question where they ask you which helicopter would be best suited for the moon. They have several depictions of helicopters with different shaped and sized blades and of course they have a answer that lets you out...but I wonder how many dorks picked the chopper with them big moon sized blades. Hehehehehe...

 

[Tim47SIP]

Cool!

There are alot of jokers out there flying sissy airframes like the 58 and the 60 (chinook guys are cool even though they fly a dumpster getting screwed by two palm trees) who like to talk smack about the maintenance of the Apache.

It's a good thing you said that! I happen to agree with you. I did nothing but haul Apache parts to the poor saps on the front line in GW1. Great bunch of guys though! P.S. At least we can carry ANYTHING we want to live on and we can sleep 8 very comfortably in the Boeing Hilton.

Birdstrike

Just curious 46D, do you fly right traffic patterns on ship approaches (which would seem to favor the right seat)?

I am sure 46driver will respond as he has more DLQ experience than I, but it really depends on what spot you are landing on. Could be a left or right pattern. Both seats can fly the pattern, but when I used to teach DLQ (deck landing qualification), I would have the guy making the approach sit in the seat on the side of the ship when departing and on the approach. Not the guy who is near the ship on the downwind. So the guy in a right pattern would sit in the left seat. Remember, the pattern is ususaly started and stopped on the same side of the ship. You lift off, fly along the side of the ship until the bow, then sort of make a right (or left) 270 to line up on a 45 degree line that extends outwards and to the rear from the spot on the ship (or lights at night). Some ships have 9 spots, some two, some one. Certain aircraft are only allowed on specific landing pads. CH-47's were limited to two spots (we took up both) and above. Hope that is clear as mud.

 

[mudkow60]

On a carrier, the approach is left to right, so the right seat crosses the deck first. But I am kinda confused with the entire thread.... military guys are supposed to split the first pilot time, while the aircraft commander logs the entire time as HAC. In the Navy (at least in the HS and the HC SAR community), pilot and copilot seating is interchangable.

 

[46Driver]

chinook guys are cool even though they fly a dumpster getting screwed by two palm trees.


Just curious 46D, do you fly right traffic patterns on ship approaches (which would seem to favor the right seat)?

Could be a left or right pattern. Both seats can fly the pattern, but when I used to teach DLQ (deck landing qualification), I would have the guy making the approach sit in the seat on the side of the ship when departing and on the approach. Not the guy who is near the ship on the downwind. So the guy in a right pattern would sit in the left seat. Remember, the pattern is ususaly started and stopped on the same side of the ship. You lift off, fly along the side of the ship until the bow, then sort of make a right (or left) 270 to line up on a 45 degree line that extends outwards and to the rear from the spot on the ship (or lights at night). Some ships have 9 spots, some two, some one. Certain aircraft are only allowed on specific landing pads. CH-47's were limited to two spots (we took up both) and above. Hope that is clear as mud.

That part about a dumpster being screwed by 2 Palm Trees has to be the best thing I've heard in a while.

Tim is on the money. Port to Starboard means that you are on the left side of the ship (when looking at it from behind the stern) and you are going to the right. That way, the pilot on the right has a better view. Also most of the landing spots on the LHA's and the LHD's are the port side of the ship.

Saw a couple of 47's land on our ships once. Makes me appreciate the droop and flap restrainers all naval aircraft have - I did not realize how far down the Chinook's blades dropped.

 

[skiddriver]

On a carrier, the approach is left to right, so the right seat crosses the deck first. But I am kinda confused with the entire thread.... military guys are supposed to split the first pilot time, while the aircraft commander logs the entire time as HAC. In the Navy (at least in the HS and the HC SAR community), pilot and copilot seating is interchangable.

That's on the big decks for standard approaches. LPD/LSD/LSTs all accomodate approaches in either direction (left-to-right, right-to-left). You can also come into the LHAs and LHDs from the "wrong side" to the starboard spots in a non-standard approach.

Also, while it may be common practice to split the FPT, nowhere is it required. It's up to the HAC/AHC's discretion when he/she fills out the NAVFLIR.