HEAT issues in Military Cockpit

[Pistlpetet]

A friend of mine who use to fly 130s for the Marines solved this problem out at Twenty-Nine Palms some years ago. They were stuck doing a CAX, living in tents. To beat the heat and improve crew morale they flew the NAKED1 Departure, where the whole crew did a mission naked, except for dog tags, boots, and headset.

One of the crew leaked this info out, and as the AC he was called on the carpet. He was sweating it a bit for a while, but eventually got off with nothing.

Ah the good old days.....

 

[sardaddy]

That's weird

"They were stuck doing a CAX, living in tents. To beat the heat and improve crew morale they flew the NAKED1 Departure, where the whole crew did a mission naked, except for dog tags, boots, and headset."

Army pilots normally live in tents during exercises as well as war but they don't feel the need to fly naked to "improve crew moral". Perhaps there is something more to why they wanted to fly naked. Because I know for a fact that my morale would not improve by watching a bunch of naked men. But hey that's just me.

 

[Pistlpetet]

From what I gather it was a crazy traditional thing from long ago. A kinda badge of honor that they did it. I was told that the NATOPS regs do (or did) only say that you were required to wear dog tags, boots, and gloves, but no mention of the flight suit.

I know Army guys sleep in tents, but MC C-130 guys are rarely far from a BOQ or hotel during peacetime ops. Remember we are talking about Marines here..lol.

 

[resqav8r]

extreme solution

Well, flying naked would allow evaporation ... the funny factor is debatable. We have our own organic 130 tankers and I certainly don't think they know anything about real heat in the cockpit. Uncomfortable maybe, but with A/C, facilities and a coffee maker ... how bad could it be. Heck our guys bake cookies waiting to pass gas to us as we sweat our bullocks off under the greenhouse. Anyone else have any real experience with real heat? I'm taking heat so distracting that it's tough to focus on the job, even tough you know the lack of focus could kill you. Now that’s hot.

 

[erj-145mech]

Personal Cooling Device

This was advertised on www.baseops.net.

http://www.shopping4cheap.com/coolingsystem/

 

[dtfl]

ERJ 145 mech - that was the Sharper Image gadget I was talking about - a lawn guy I know got one and said it worked.
Some Pave Low guys I know that used to my Apache guys told me the AH 64 has an AC "eyeball" that fires at your balls...and one of them said "Because when your balls are cold......"
That work?
I guess this is the same principle, but with your neck. I dunno if the same hold true or not

 

[hawg2hawk]

I've got news for you. A fighter cockpit is slightly climate controlled. If it's not cold enough to snow, a fighter pilot is probably going to get out of a cockpit drenched in sweat. Yanking around at high Gs is an athletic event and quickly overpowers the miniscule efforts of a small AC unit in a fighter. Add to that the effect of sitting in the sun under a greenhouse called a canopy and you'll find heat is quite an issue for fighter guys.

Well...yeah, but having flown both in hot-ass climates, there really is no comparison. I certainly remember having my helmet too hot to touch following trips across the pond, and taping charts across the top of the canopy to keep the sun from baking my nugget, but in a fighter you can stop or reduce the physical activity, whereas in a helo the heat is with you all the time and you absolutely can not get away from it. I have never felt so hot that I thought I was going to pass out in the A-10 (even in Kuwait), but I have in the OV-10 (no A/C, big magnifying glass canopy), and I have in the helicopter. Huge difference.
When I was going through the helo transition, several of the instructors had
these:

http://www.mistymate.com/personal-cooling.html

and they seemed to work well as long as the doors are on. Several guys mentioned freezing a camelbak and tucking it between their flight suit and their t-shirt when they did southern watch. Didn't last long, but at least it's something. Carrying frozen water bottles will give you cold water for a little while, at least.

 

[AdlerDriver]

Well...yeah, but having flown both in hot-ass climates, there really is no comparison. I certainly remember having my helmet too hot to touch following trips across the pond, and taping charts across the top of the canopy to keep the sun from baking my nugget, but in a fighter you can stop or reduce the physical activity, whereas in a helo the heat is with you all the time and you absolutely can not get away from it. I have never felt so hot that I thought I was going to pass out in the A-10 (even in Kuwait), but I have in the OV-10 (no A/C, big magnifying glass canopy), and I have in the helicopter. Huge difference.
When I was going through the helo transition, several of the instructors had
these:

http://www.mistymate.com/personal-cooling.html

and they seemed to work well as long as the doors are on. Several guys mentioned freezing a camelbak and tucking it between their flight suit and their t-shirt when they did southern watch. Didn't last long, but at least it's something. Carrying frozen water bottles will give you cold water for a little while, at least.

Okay.... I'll take your word for it. My point was heat in fighter cockpits is a problem, not the "no issue" alleged by the thread starter. I guess heat in helos and OV-10s is a bigger problem. Whatever. Your problem is bigger than mine. I knew I flew fighters for a reason.

 

[resqav8r]

RGR got it

RGR, got it ... anytime you put a human under glass in a sealed environment with the sun beaming down on him it'll be an issue no matter what the FAT or the ECU. After 22 yrs of service I'm on the doorstep of getting out, so I'm trying to determine if finding a solution for this is a worthy use of my time. Over the years I've tried all of these methods mention (except the sharperimage one ... didn't want the rath of my peers for looking like a ___). Ice vests, frozen camelbak, water soaked flightsuit, skull cap, etc. Guess I tried everything short of flying NUDE. The system I've used in autoracing so far works best but there are limfacs that'll require some engineering to make it work in our world. From what I've learned in this thread is that my market is much larger than just the Lift Helicopter community. I guess everyone will be seeing the product by years end. I'm testing versions of it here at OEF now ... anyone in the Southern RC that wants to try it let me know. When I pull chalks I will leave all prototypes behind with users. Next week I'll visit the SIPs & MTPs to find someone willing to try them and give me feedback. Everyone that has confirmed my hunches, it's appreciated. I've also since learned that this issue is huge for the guys driving in the theater. And the guys humpin' rucks in theater. All the other items out there are half assed stop gap measures. I hope what I'm working on will be a solution. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts on how heat affects us at work.

 

[Kuma]

Okay.... I'll take your word for it. My point was heat in fighter cockpits is a problem, not the "no issue" alleged by the thread starter. I guess heat in helos and OV-10s is a bigger problem. Whatever. Your problem is bigger than mine. I knew I flew fighters for a reason.

Heat is a problem in every cockpit. Every community needs to work to help mitigate the physiological effects of conducting the mission. It seems that most of us are willing to help each other find solutions.

How do you protect yourself from heat? Maybe someone else can use the same techniques to help himself...this is not a Macho contest.