HEAT issues in Military Cockpit

[dtfl]

ERJ 145 mech - that was the Sharper Image gadget I was talking about - a lawn guy I know got one and said it worked.
Some Pave Low guys I know that used to my Apache guys told me the AH 64 has an AC "eyeball" that fires at your balls...and one of them said "Because when your balls are cold......"
That work?
I guess this is the same principle, but with your neck. I dunno if the same hold true or not

 

[hawg2hawk]

I've got news for you. A fighter cockpit is slightly climate controlled. If it's not cold enough to snow, a fighter pilot is probably going to get out of a cockpit drenched in sweat. Yanking around at high Gs is an athletic event and quickly overpowers the miniscule efforts of a small AC unit in a fighter. Add to that the effect of sitting in the sun under a greenhouse called a canopy and you'll find heat is quite an issue for fighter guys.

Well...yeah, but having flown both in hot-ass climates, there really is no comparison. I certainly remember having my helmet too hot to touch following trips across the pond, and taping charts across the top of the canopy to keep the sun from baking my nugget, but in a fighter you can stop or reduce the physical activity, whereas in a helo the heat is with you all the time and you absolutely can not get away from it. I have never felt so hot that I thought I was going to pass out in the A-10 (even in Kuwait), but I have in the OV-10 (no A/C, big magnifying glass canopy), and I have in the helicopter. Huge difference.
When I was going through the helo transition, several of the instructors had
these:

http://www.mistymate.com/personal-cooling.html

and they seemed to work well as long as the doors are on. Several guys mentioned freezing a camelbak and tucking it between their flight suit and their t-shirt when they did southern watch. Didn't last long, but at least it's something. Carrying frozen water bottles will give you cold water for a little while, at least.

 

[AdlerDriver]

Well...yeah, but having flown both in hot-ass climates, there really is no comparison. I certainly remember having my helmet too hot to touch following trips across the pond, and taping charts across the top of the canopy to keep the sun from baking my nugget, but in a fighter you can stop or reduce the physical activity, whereas in a helo the heat is with you all the time and you absolutely can not get away from it. I have never felt so hot that I thought I was going to pass out in the A-10 (even in Kuwait), but I have in the OV-10 (no A/C, big magnifying glass canopy), and I have in the helicopter. Huge difference.
When I was going through the helo transition, several of the instructors had
these:

http://www.mistymate.com/personal-cooling.html

and they seemed to work well as long as the doors are on. Several guys mentioned freezing a camelbak and tucking it between their flight suit and their t-shirt when they did southern watch. Didn't last long, but at least it's something. Carrying frozen water bottles will give you cold water for a little while, at least.

Okay.... I'll take your word for it. My point was heat in fighter cockpits is a problem, not the "no issue" alleged by the thread starter. I guess heat in helos and OV-10s is a bigger problem. Whatever. Your problem is bigger than mine. I knew I flew fighters for a reason.

 

[resqav8r]

RGR got it

RGR, got it ... anytime you put a human under glass in a sealed environment with the sun beaming down on him it'll be an issue no matter what the FAT or the ECU. After 22 yrs of service I'm on the doorstep of getting out, so I'm trying to determine if finding a solution for this is a worthy use of my time. Over the years I've tried all of these methods mention (except the sharperimage one ... didn't want the rath of my peers for looking like a ___). Ice vests, frozen camelbak, water soaked flightsuit, skull cap, etc. Guess I tried everything short of flying NUDE. The system I've used in autoracing so far works best but there are limfacs that'll require some engineering to make it work in our world. From what I've learned in this thread is that my market is much larger than just the Lift Helicopter community. I guess everyone will be seeing the product by years end. I'm testing versions of it here at OEF now ... anyone in the Southern RC that wants to try it let me know. When I pull chalks I will leave all prototypes behind with users. Next week I'll visit the SIPs & MTPs to find someone willing to try them and give me feedback. Everyone that has confirmed my hunches, it's appreciated. I've also since learned that this issue is huge for the guys driving in the theater. And the guys humpin' rucks in theater. All the other items out there are half assed stop gap measures. I hope what I'm working on will be a solution. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts on how heat affects us at work.

 

[Kuma]

Okay.... I'll take your word for it. My point was heat in fighter cockpits is a problem, not the "no issue" alleged by the thread starter. I guess heat in helos and OV-10s is a bigger problem. Whatever. Your problem is bigger than mine. I knew I flew fighters for a reason.

Heat is a problem in every cockpit. Every community needs to work to help mitigate the physiological effects of conducting the mission. It seems that most of us are willing to help each other find solutions.

How do you protect yourself from heat? Maybe someone else can use the same techniques to help himself...this is not a Macho contest.

 

[JimNtexas]

The backseat of the F-4 was hotter than hell most of the time, the a/c didn't work below 10,000.

The F-111, on the other hand, was designed for comfort. It had a great air-conditioner that kept the cockpit cool and comfortable no matter how hot it was outside.

 

[Keydet]

Having flown the T-34 for 3 summers in Corpus, I'd have to submit that experience being akin to living in a suburb of hell. Opening the canopy passing 4-5,000 ft in the climb sometimes helped.

 

[pilotmiketx]

Sweating my b@lls off just reading this stuff. Doesn't help that it's still 102 here at the end of Sept.

From my medic days I remember that the armpits and crotch have big vessels running thru them so to cool someone's core temp, place ice packs there. Probably kinda hard to fly with ice packs under the arms so that leaves plan B. Chemical first-aid types work good. I use them after hot weather triathlons to get my core down. Also staying hydrated helps, but you already know that.

 

[resqav8r]

thanks for all the good tips

Just wanted to thank everyone for sharing the info. At least folks can read the thread and take advantage of some options to keep cool. I've learned that this is far more common than I thought and I'm not too macho to get relief from the heat.

 

[atlcrashpad]

64 is HOT

The AH-64A I flew was hotter than Hell is the desert heat of Iraq. If the crew chief(s) cleaned the ECU filter (K&N type) everyday, you might have good air flow. Also the "Air Warrior" body armor cut air flow to our torso's causing uncomfortable flight conditions.


OIF 2.5 Vet

 

[resqav8r]

AirWarrior not working

thanks so much for that info. I've never tried Air Warrior and after learning about it thought that the market need had been filled. I was ready to walk away from the concept I tested in theater this last trip. Your comment makes me think I should keep up the research. I just got back to the USA a few hours ago and now I have more access to do additional research. The system I used worked really well, but since 99% of my flights were at night I only got to try it 5 times at temps above 38c. I only would wear it into the night if I started in day light. My flight surgeon thought it was good and helped me with it, but of course going up against Foster-Miller & GE may well be a waste of time, no matter how well my design works. Again thanks for sharing that nugget of info with me. Cheers, Drew

 

[atlcrashpad]

Air Warrior

RESQAV8R,

I did not use the "Micro Cooling Unit" with the Air Warrior. The "A" model Apache has an "adequate" ENCU (Not). At least that's what the PM out of Redstone said. If you us it, you need the cooling pack and battery. More S*it to lug around.

The A/W body armor conforms better to your torso, but still no circulation of air to cool you. The survial vest in better than the Air Save. It was unbelievably hot sometimes in that cockpit.

 

[RVSM]

Worse yet, has anyone heard how the guys in HMMVs are dealing?

They suck it up and deal. I was a Gunner on M1A1's in a previous life. 145+ in the turret wearing full nomex including hood with chem suit over that is not uncommon during combat ops. HMMV is a little better since it has windows and no requirement for nomex jammies. Welcome to the suck as they say.