Hawker Pay

[C-5 MEM]

I was asked from a buddy of mine flying with a Hawker 125 as co-pilot. He will be asking for a salary position and wanted an idea for the pay. Does anyone out there have an idea?

 

[h25b]

Where is the job located, is it 135 or 91 corporate, is it a hawker 800, 700, etc ??? Give some specifics and I'll PM some numbers...

 

[C-5 MEM]

I believe he said its 125 or 700. He is part 91 corporate.

 

[Indapool]

part 91... 700 .. probably around 40K-45K average
depends on location

 

[501261]

$40-45 is a little low for a stricly 91 operation! $40-50 is about right for a 135 Hawker 700 SIC gig, but if it's strictly 91 $50-70,000 is a better number.

There have been a lot of questions about pay in the last few days, one thing to remember in the corporate/charter world there is no union, these numbers are strictly average. What one Hawker crew makes might be completely different than another one. What you make and earn is completely up to you.

For instance, I can guarantee you that I would be able to find a Hawker copilot, who would gladly accept a salary of $15,000, wash the airplane, and get my dry cleaning, wash my car, etc. (not that I would ever consider doing this, its just an example). On the other hand, there are a bunch of us corporate pilots that have to "hide" the salary surveys. Using the Hawker example again, I have a very good friend that flies a 700 he's making $130K, his SIC is making $70,000, and they also do some 135 work.

 

[Indapool]

$50k to $70k for a Hawker 700 copilot??
HAHAHAHA
Sorry.....

In todays market, without a type in the A\C...Not going to happen
I drive a 700 so I feel I can speak on whats realistic. An FO on an XP wouldn't see those numbers unless the company was very generous.

And the owner that is paying 200K for a 700 crew is a keeper

 

[C-5 MEM]

501261,

You were right. 65,000 for the right seat but also the company will type me in a 800XP.

 

[501261]

501261,

You were right. 65,000 for the right seat but also the company will type me in a 800XP.

C141FE congratulations, sounds like a respectable job. Most "good" corporate people type the copilot. Why, because it really doesn't cost that much extra (sure the Hawker type is an extra $3K, but the entire thing is a write off anyway), and it makes the SIC feel good, and happy employees tend to stick around longer.

On the flip side of that is that some companies will try to "force" their SIC's to stay by not typing them, so that their job opportunities are more limited.

The best companies to work for are those whose employees are coveted by other companies, yet those employees stay put because they know they're working for the best.

And the owner that is paying 200K for a 700 crew is a keeper

You bet he's a keeper, but a lot of us "true" corporate guys (guys that don't have 121 aspirations) tend to work for keepers! Remember you only make what you are worth.

 

[2000flyer]

While I agree with serveral of these posts, I think it's important to point out that, while there are excellent paying corporate jobs to be had, they are few and far between these days. Then, if you do hear of one, the competition is fierce and remember, the one looking always know a "friend" who is looking for work. While not all jobs are filled word of mouth in corporate aviation, many MANY are.

IMH, in this current economic environment, it's truly an employers market. Two years ago a new hire could command and get a higher starting wage as many corporations did their best to keep pilot's from jumping either to the airlines, or better paying corporate jobs that had vacancies created by their pilot's going elsewhere.

While I'm hoping for higher salaries (at least NBAA standards), I can guarantee that my boss would chuckle if he heard a Hawker FO was making $70,000 (chuckle inferring "don't count on that here"). However, I also know I can be replaced in a heart beat by someone willing to work for less just to get back to flying. A recent look at the NBAA message board will tell you the number of pilot's trying to get corporate jobs just to stay flying, offering their services at "minimum wage".

Regards,
2000Flyer

 

[hawkerpilot]

Market Driven

It seems to be all market driven....the job I just left was a place I would have considered retiring from when I started 3 years ago...now I wouldnt recommend it anyone.

They base whether you have to sign a training contract on how tight the market is and even if you met your obligation to them they are now making guys re-sign for another year....or lose your job.

We all need to learn to "Just say No!!" I would rather sell used cars than be treated that way......

 

[Frac Daddy]

Indapool,

Where do you live that a Hawker SIC makes 40-45K? Nebraska? I made more than that as a light jet SIC. It depends upon where you live. If you live on either coast, 50-70K for a Hawker SIC is about par, even in today's market. C141FE: Congrats on the new job.

FD

 

[C-5 MEM]

Thanks Daddy,

 

[Gulfstream 200]

130-200K to fly a Hawker 700???

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, Im in the wrong bird!

Sure these jobs exist, but they are usually single plane PT91 for one owner....great while it lasts, but it rarely does....
all it takes is a divorce, a retirement, a fractional purchase, etc...

then back to the "real" world where hawker pilots make around 80K (Is that right?)

I have met these "200K" to fly for some "gazillionaire owner" work 4 days amonth type of pilot and personally I think they are FULL OF $HIT most of the time.........

but then I am just a schmuck pilot making average pay

I think a good rule is take a pilots salary, subtract about 30%, then you know what he really makes......

 

[CL60]

Salary is important but consider this...

C141FE,

I think you're talking about a Hawker 125-700 FO slot for $65K annually. You also stated that you would be typed in an XP. On the surface, it looks good but...

From your profile... at 6,900 hours and probably well over 7 years of flying experience, you could definitely use a jet type rating but I'd also consider; job security-longevity, benefits, scheduled days off, flying hours per year, RON's per year, bonuses, expense account practices, company SOP's and related flight/rest/duty time company practices, pilot attrition, peripheral duties other than flying, standby days, on call 7/24?, etc...

I don't know your situation but if you have a choice, it might be worth the time to check this out.

Good luck,

 

[C-5 MEM]

CL60,

I flew in the aircraft a couple days ago and it is the 800XP. Used to belong to Enron out of Houston. The pay is 65,000 dollars left seat and also being typed in the aircraft so that the senior pilot can take vacation and the flights will keep going.

Job status is that they have been flying for 21 years and it is a top 500 company (Banking)

Avg 300 hours a year flying with 3-4 days of flying a week.

Not to bad

TV

 

[501261]

C141FE,

Now that you have a corporate job, I would recommend "bettering" yourself so that if something like G200 mentioned (divorce, retirement, fractional) comes around you are in a better position.

ERAU has an online MBA/A (the A being aviation), takes about 2 years to get, but a great thing to put on a corporate resume. Also go to the NBAA seminars, small flight department management program, tax meetings, and ops manual program. They also have PDP's, Professional Development Programs.

G200 is right, the "average" corporate pilot is making somewhere around $80K, now how do you make more money? A lot of flight department's direct reporting is the CFO, having types and ATP's is great, but to really make yourself stand out to the CFO, and not just be a "flyboy", pull out that MBA, and other management certification. The CFO will look at you in a whole different light, certainly worthy of the 6 figure salary that is the company norm for department managers!

That's the difference between Joe Pilot (dime a dozen) and Pilot/Manager (worthy of a 6 figure salary).

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I agree 100%!!

A Masters is very good idea in corporate aviation. Remember, in many cases you will be working directly with people who have MINIMUM backgrounds of MBA's. So even the very simple ERAU online masters (OK, time consuming) is an incredible asset that sets you apart from a "line pilot"

On the flip side, the "line pilot" comes and goes with trips.....once you get some title "asst chief pilot", "safety council" etc.....you may find you not only fly trips, but spend MANY long days in the office!! ---- So, its whatever you desire to be I suppose. I myself am starting the Masters thing, but see it taking forever as the motivation dies quick....After a trip I just want to come home, drink a beer (or 6) and forget about flying for a little while, nevermind park on the computer and read....

 

[C-5 MEM]

I will look into that. I have always planned on getting my masters. Thanks for the intel.


TV

 

[CL60]

C141FE,

Looks like the real deal. Hope it all works out well.


Good luck with the new career.