Hawker 900xp

JFReservist

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Posts
203
Total Time
>$$$$$
The group I work for has decided to purchase a midsize jet. The preliminary decision is the Hawker 900xp, mainly due to: price, delivery positions and aircraft capability.

I am mailnly concerned about:

1. the jet living up to its performance specs (real world flying v. what the sales rep says)
2. operating costs
3. training costs
4. aircraft comfort for owners (and crew)

Can anyone give me their thoughts on opearting this aircraft as well as known problems or concerns? Are their better options considering price/capability. I think they should wait for a G-250, but that's not going to happen. I haven't flown a midsize in many years and don't know much about that segment of the industry so any help from current owner/operators would be very helpful.

Thanks!
 

LJ45

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Posts
1,081
Total Time
13,000
I would get a low time used CL300 for the same price. JMHO
 

JFReservist

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Posts
203
Total Time
>$$$$$
There are a few of us pulling our hair out saying similar things. The group wants to buy new... I have no idea why. I am trying to give them the best options, but they write the checks.
 

tdwnds1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
177
Total Time
4784
I gotta agree with buying used these days. The prices are just WAY too good. If your heart is set on a Hawker, lots of them to be had.

Cant speak for the 900, but the 800 was a nice aircraft. Carried 10000lbs of fuel. Went from CLE to LAX pretty much no problem at FL410.

Comfortable for both the passengers and crew. I stand up in it (Im 5 feet 9 inches tall). As I recall the seats even for the crew were pretty nice and the 900 has a really nice avionics suite. Reatively roomy inside.

Cant speak for training costs, but pretty much all the schools are willing to deal these days. I dont think its unreasonable ask for and get a 20 percent discount, especially if you or the pilots already have a relationship with the school

Luggage capcity is OK. In our 800 it was in the front and unless you were bring a buttload of stuff, you could get it in and secure it. We had a small compartment in the Lav (which you can also stand up in) for our bags and it fit fine.

Hawkers a tough aircraft and fun to fly. The ramshead yokes dont take too long to get used to.
 

BoilerUP

Citation style...
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Posts
5,311
Total Time
1500+
A new G250 is going to cost at least $8M more when it comes available than a 900XP lists for today...and I'd imagine HBC is willing to make some deals to move some airplanes right now.

I've evaluated new midsize airframes and the G150 beats the pants off the Hawker when it comes to operating economics, goes further at a faster speed and has MUCH better baggage not to mention no messy TKS fluid...but it has wing boots, less full-fuel payload than the Hawker and the cabin is a few feet shorter in length which obvioulsy can effect pax comfort.

Training comes with a new airframe from FSI, but 900XP training is available from both FSI Beech & Simuflite MMU.
 

400A

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2003
Posts
1,760
Total Time
5000
Hawker flight deck comfort is outstanding. In my opinion, the real world numbers on your hawker will be as stated by the book. They are easy to hit because they are not predicated on cruse at FL 450 at some perfect wind and temperature. The airplane is very predictable day in and day out. Ours does anyway. Ours is a 750, but I have several buddies flying the 900 and they love it. The Proline 21 is awesome. We are certified paperless with dual servers. We have had very few issues in our first 120 hours of operation. Support has been outstanding. Our Pax love the airplane.
 

ultrarunner

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
4,324
Total Time
10000
A brand new G200 can be bought for 15 mil, and you can have it now. It's THE best deal out there for NEW if you only have 15 mil to spend!
 

BoilerUP

Citation style...
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Posts
5,311
Total Time
1500+
A brand new G200 can be bought for 15 mil, and you can have it now. It's THE best deal out there for NEW if you only have 15 mil to spend!
$15M for a factory-new G200? That's what the list of a G150 is these days...
 

X man

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Posts
255
Total Time
9999
Hawker

That is great price for a three year old CL 300. Talked to a G 150 driver three days ago at an FBO, said the aircraft was really under powered, that was his opinion. Full gross, initial climb to FL 340 kind of stuff. Having not flown the aircraft, cannot confirm or deny.
 

BoilerUP

Citation style...
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Posts
5,311
Total Time
1500+
X man said:
Talked to a G 150 driver three days ago at an FBO, said the aircraft was really under powered, that was his opinion. Full gross, initial climb to FL 340 kind of stuff. Having not flown the aircraft, cannot confirm or deny.
I have heard it doesn't like ISA + temps very much...but more than one has told me its a solid initial FL380-390 airframe following a MGW takeoff. Even if you're relegated to the mid-30s initially in the G150, you'll still be going faster and burning less fuel than the Hawker at FL410.

It would be interesting to see the G150's climb performance if it had the additional thrust and flat-rating of the 900XP's -50R engine, though...
 

jonjuan

Honey Ryder
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Posts
4,155
Total Time
3,000+

ditchpilot

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Posts
193
Total Time
11,000
buying new gives you accelerated depreciation and you write off more then half the cost of the plane in 3 years.
 

jonjuan

Honey Ryder
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Posts
4,155
Total Time
3,000+
buying new gives you accelerated depreciation and you write off more then half the cost of the plane in 3 years.
Even better-it's 50% in the first year alone according to the MACRs in the article versus 20% in the year one under normal circumstances. This may drive new costs down significantly.
 

hawkerjet

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
606
Total Time
8200
Brand New 900XP's can be had for 10 to 11 million depending on options. There are some green ones sitting in Wichita and Little Rock. The 900XP is an excellent plane. They got it right with the dash 50 engines. Straight to 410 99% of the time even hot/high and mid latitudes. If they could ever figure out that baggage issue, this would be the perfect mid size. The G200 and CL300 are super mids and shouldn't be confused with the mid sized Hawker 900XP. You will enjoy flying the 900XP.
 

JFReservist

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Posts
203
Total Time
>$$$$$
Thanks hawkerjet. Hopefully the group will make a decision shortly.

As far as buying new, yes - the accelerated depreciation definitely factors in. I know there are other factors as well. Everyone in the flight department has given their 2 cents worth... (we all have begged them to reconsider the buy "new" requirement), but when it comes down to it, I think its going to be a hard plane to beat for the price. I'm looking forward to it, although I don't know if I'll be flying it much.

Does anyone go to Europe in it very often? Do you tech stop in Gander or Shannon? Has anyone been into London City (I can't seem to find the LCY certification). I think it will be at least a month or two before I get to tag along and ask questions to the reps, but having some real-world knowledge (yes, I know this is FI!) will be beneficial.

Thanks everyone for the responses.
 

JFReservist

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Posts
203
Total Time
>$$$$$
One more quick question: Politics and ridiculousness aside... has anyone had to pay for their carbon emissions scheme tax in the EU with the Hawker? Does it fall under the general HS-125 type or do they consider it a "more carbon friendly" airplane due to the 50R engines?

It pains me to even write that...
 

SpaceBall 1

Props are for boats
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Posts
158
Total Time
5000+
Have you considered a Citation Sovereign? I don't know how much Cessna is dealing, but I have some buddies that fly the jet and they love it. Good cabin, great range, a huge baggage compartment and outstanding runway performance. There are used ones on Controller for less than $15M.
 

X man

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Posts
255
Total Time
9999
900xp

The Sovereign is pretty good all arounder, good climb and takeoff performance, great baggage hold, goes high, good range. Flew one in the ME, with no maintenance headaches, flew 400 hours in ten months. I hear that they are fairly cheap these days.
 
Last edited:
Top