Hawaiian to file 1113(c)

[HA pilot]

Josh Gotbaum, the court appointed trustee for HA has indicated that he will file a 1113(c) motion next week for relief surrounding the pilots pension and disability benefits. This comes after ALPA pointed out that the pension plan is not in distress and shoud continue, if not in its current form, than another. Gotbaum, a new commer to the industry, is one who loves to take credit for everything good happining at Hawaiian but has no love for the people making it happen.

In court Gotbaum must prove that his changes to the contract are both necessary and equitable. Equitable meaning that all creditors and employee groups shared the burden equally and no one group is harmed more than another. This could be intresting considering all creditors are being paid in full, or 100 cents on the dollar.

 

[dash8driver]

is that for real? do you have a link you can post to that?

 

[HA pilot]

I should point out that Gotbaum is not seeking to terminate the plan, but to make changes favorable to the company.

 

[fly4surf]

pension?
what is that?
and "favorable?"
that sounds great!

 

[Jim]

is that for real? do you have a link you can post to that?

Yes it's for real. Our MEC Chairman was told last week by Gutbomb. It was in our weekly newsletter. Meanwhile, the contract negotiations continue until the last minute. Gotbomb said he thought a TA would be reached so he is just now starting the paperwork. He expects to file this week.

I think that Gutbomb will have a hard time convincing Judge Farris to throw out the contract. The economics do not justify it. I hope I'm right. HAL ALPA has the option to just extend our current contract with 4% yearly raises for 3 years on a change in ownership. The change has already happened. We;ve been making profits with the current contract, so I would not be surprised if this was the eventual outcome.

I would rather stay on furlough and see a strike than lose our retirement or take any concessions. I think that is the feeling of most HAL pilots too. A 1113(c) ruling against the pilots releases us for an immediate strike. I would expect (and hope) that a vote and strike would happen almost immediately. HAL pilots are pi$$ed. They have been giving back for years and now some new mainland carpet bagger wants to come in and make John Adams look like Santa Claus. RC's reorganization plan was to buy the debt at 60 cents on the dollar, take control, not put any money into the company and than pay themselves back at 100%. It is only because HAL really never needed to go into bankruptcy and has been making record profits that this larceny plan can work.

Wednesday is a big day. The HIP/HARC/Konop Plan reorganization plan finally gets looked at by Judge Farris. The RC plan puts no new money to speak of into HAL, but it takes it our big time. The HIP/HARC/Konop plan puts in $200 million with an additional $100 million line of credit. Plus they plan on paying the creditors back 100% like RC. However, unlike RC, HIP/HARC/Konop says there is no need for more employee concessions or to cancel the retirement plan. HIP/HARC/Konop's problem is that they are the "little guys" not the big corporations like RC. Even though they have a better plan, RC will probably win in the long run because they are promising Gotbomb an big exit bonus. Gotbomb is the federal trustee so he carries a lot of weight with Judge Faris. It's all politics now.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Maybe I am just too skeptical, but I would be surprised if the judge doesn't go along with whatever the management dude's name is. I swear sometimes I think airline managers and judges grease each others palms. The management always gets their way.

 

[Dan Roman]

Jim one problem with the HIP/HARC plan is it has failed repeatedly to back up many of it's claims. He has said he has money but never been able to substantiate it. I think the latest is he says they have 350 million to put in. Believe me if he shows up with 350 million on weds he will become a player, if he can't than his plan is just a bunch of fiction.
True story that the ALPA pilots at HAL are willing to go before the Judge rather than make substantial concessions to the retirement plan. The feeling is that Ranch Capital has already put up 173 mil in their plan to make the creditors 100% whole, something never done before in an airline BK case, why should the pilot retirement plan not be made whole also?

 

[Jim]

Jim one problem with the HIP/HARC plan is it has failed repeatedly to back up many of it's claims. He has said he has money but never been able to substantiate it. I think the latest is he says they have 350 million to put in. Believe me if he shows up with 350 million on weds he will become a player, if he can't than his plan is just a bunch of fiction.
True story that the ALPA pilots at HAL are willing to go before the Judge rather than make substantial concessions to the retirement plan. The feeling is that Ranch Capital has already put up 173 mil in their plan to make the creditors 100% whole, something never done before in an airline BK case, why should the pilot retirement plan not be made whole also?

Hopefully they will show the Judge the money.

On a side note: all over this board you read ALPA bashing. In the HAL bankruptcy, I believe ALPA and especially HAL ALPA have been doing things right. I would hate to think about where we would be without them. My above opinion is based on what I have read from all the sources including the HAL pilots' website, Konop's website and the bankruptcy documents filed with the court. HAL ALPA has a lot more access and docuements than I do. So far they have been on top of things and I trust their judgement. After the court hearing, if HAL ALPA feels the RC plan is best than I'll go along with that.

 

[Dan Roman]

Also for what it's worth, 3 unions have settled with no concessions (after being threatened with 1113) so this isn't over yet. Your right, our reps have done an outstanding job and all but a few seem to feel that way. Those few would whing and complain no matter what. It's a shame Konop has always tried to undermine ALPA rather than work with it.

 

[Freight Dog]

It's a shame Konop has always tried to undermine ALPA rather than work with it.

What's the deal with that guy? I read somewhere that he's a line pilot with HAL but does not belong to ALPA, and he's not on a scab list either.

 

[Jim]

What's the deal with that guy? I read somewhere that he's a line pilot with HAL but does not belong to ALPA, and he's not on a scab list either.

He did not like ALPA so he quit the union.

 

[RJP]

Konop's website and the bankruptcy documents filed with the court. HAL ALPA has a lot more access and docuements than I do. So far they have been on top of things and I trust their judgement. After the court hearing, if HAL ALPA feels the RC plan is best than I'll go along with that.

What is Konop's website?

 

[HA pilot]

Whats the latest at Aloha, are you guys going to make out O.K.. It's just about show time for us. What ever happened to the normal days.....!

 

[Jim]

What is Konop's website?

I don't know if it's supposed to be public or not, so I'll wait to see if one of the other HAL pilots wants to give it out. Sorry, I probably should not have mentioned it.


On another note, the HAL FAs just came to a TA with the company today. That leaves only the pilots' contract to be renegotiated. I don't know any of the specifics, but the FAs swore they would not be taking any more concessions. The recent IAM TA supposedly is concession free too. If this is the case, it should give the pilots more grounds to refuse any concessions.

No word yet on the court hearing on the HIP/HARC (Konop's plan) today.

 

[HAL]

Jim/Dan Roman/HA Pilot/Erndogg,

For those of us out of the loop (I'm on a layover in DC right now), are there any low-level rumblings about what will happen once the bankruptcy is over?

After another friend had a recent talk with the chief pilot, he said probably only a couple recalls this year. But then again, he's working for management so that's probaby the party line. Is there any other talk of growth, or is the new ownership going to pass it up? We know they should grow, but do they have the cajones to get more planes and do it?

HAL

 

[Dan Roman]

Hal,
This is what I've heard.
When Ranch Capital first approached the company and unions they said they wanted to double the fleet in 18 months. Both the unions and Dunkerly said that was to ambitious and would erode the quality of service.
I do know a maint. manager that was told to be ready for more aircraft. I asked him if the rumor of 4 767's that I had heard was true, he just said more than that.
They do have ambitious growth plans, it's safe to say that is how they get a return on their investment. Australia is doing well and accrding to PBN they are looking at more SYD flights or another city in Australia. As I'm sure your aware there is a lot of demand for our flights and we can support more aircraft. Carty is being brought in for his expertise in obtaining aircraft and expansion plans.
Keep in mind when asking the chief pilot he has to be very careful what he says. Because no matter what he says it will get blown out of perportion in the rumor mill.

And of course all rumors always come true and things never change in the airline industry!!!

 

[HAL]

Thanks Dan R., That is what I thought was going on. It's just hard to keep track now that I'm 'elsewhere'.

Any preliminary word on the F/A's new contract? Any give-backs on retirement? Pay?. Thanks.

HAL

 

[Dan Roman]

Havn't heard about the details of the FA's but they seemed to go from far apart to signing rather quickly. Ranch walked out of the pilot talks, not us, last week, then they signed with everyone else. Now we are the only one's left. Nobody else seems to have given up anything, so now it's up to a last minute signing or we will see what Judge Faris thinks is fair. Jan 25 is still the big day.

 

[Sleepyhead]

So what happen with the 1113C that was going to be filed this past week?

 

[Jim]

It hasn't been filed yet, but the company is still planning on doing so.