Jim said:
Very immature power trip. Sounds to me like the pilot isn't able to switch off the emotions and screw his flying head on. The authority to remove someone is given in the interest of removing to threat to pax, crew, or aircraft safety, and in this instance that threat was the captain himself and his inability to contain his emotions, not someone (non-threatening, non-unruly, non-intoxicated) sitting in the cabin he just doesn't happen to like.On Your Six said:
I don't think anyone really has a hard time seeing through the facade of safety here. It's more about using a technicality to put the screws to someone. Are you telling me management (scheduling) has never found a technicality that clearly violated the spirit of a work rule, but put you at work when you shouldn't have been? Wake up.CatYaaak said:
The captain didn't give a rat's a$$ about getting the pax there on time, otherwise HE wouldn't have initiated the confrontation on board the aircraft prior to departure. The credit for avoiding the delay goes to the one acting like a "gentleman", not the tantrum-thrower.TonyC said:
And you should be tripley happy to not be there when you consider what sort of professionalism Gautbaum has shown in his actions since being appointed trustee. Think of the peer-applause HE is getting. Get real. The guy is scum and he was treated accordingly in one of the rare instances when the tables could be turned, if only for a few moments. Mature? Professional? Perhaps not, but the public took notice. It's not just the airline business. The nation is tired of corporate criminals lining their pockets off the backs of those who have put their lives into their work.CatYaaak said:
Then you agree.....showboating. So the public took notice....how on earth is that relevant?...do you think they'll spontaneously rise up and launch a boycott of the airline or something? For your information, the public already thinks that airline pilots are paid well-above your average joe. If they concern themselves with salary issues not their own, it's going to be about the pay of police, firemen, or teachers. The only "airline pilot issues" to become part of a national discussion and conciousness recently is thanks to a few being busted by TSA for showing up to work after having a few too many drinks.Hugh Jorgan said:
...lets see, a bit of a Hijack, but lets see: I had 2 Chief Pilots looking for ANY reason to fire me, at least 1 Mesa hired-private investigation firm trying to find out my true identity, they tried to sabotageme going to my current employer, who saw it for the cheap shot it was, my LEC Rep was actually scared of me, I was almost attacked in the ALPA Road Show for calling them out for agreeing to this cra p, AND I was banned from the Mesa ALPA boards for being a troublemaker (read:fighting against their inability to fight the POS contract) That ain't the least of it; So how do you think I voted? BTW The phone voting system wouldn't allow you to vote NO more than once....I tried!MW44 said:
Spoken like a true product of the airline culture...."maturity" on parade. Chalk you up as another "professional" who "feels" that captain's authority is given for the purpose of being used as an outlet to vent emotions...or better yet, as extrapolated here...to save the world from corporate evil! No doubt you'll fit right in and make a fine airline captain, and gosh, I know I'll sleep better at night.capt. megadeth said:
I guess you're upset about the rules governing captains authority and you think it unfair. its nice that you have an opinion about what happened, then again... you know what they say about opinions. since you werent there, and your connection to that group and their current situation is remote at best, i'd say you're trying your hand at speculation. if you're so certain of your speculation skills, you should take it to the stock market and buy some futures.CatYaaak said:
From reading your quotes, I get the feeling your knowledge of airline labor relations is something heard about and not necessarily experienced. I can assure you that the "fantasies" of Ornstein were not imagined, the hate is earned as well. I can assure you that I was basically a happy go lucky camper the day I joined and the day I left Mesa. The 5 years in between were not the most joyful ones. Since you seem a bit short on enough facts to comment on these matters, I'll give ya a few. Unions and the "maturity" wouldn't be an issue if the default setting of most managers is "If ya don't like our shafting, greive it." Pilots quality of life issues get flushed like used snot rags because airline managers couldn't staff, organize or run an functional company. EVERYTHING was, and still is, done on the fly and in a constant state of reactive turmoil(Read "cost efficient to management, look at the 1900 CLT crash, poor MX) This mentality made predictability in your life impossible, just so number crunchers could feel good. The result was ZERO ability to plan your life, or be a meaningful part of anothers, all while people like Ornstein collect 15 motorcycles, yachts and resort vacation homes, all while you spend 30 hrs in XNA at the industrys LOWEST PAYSCALE. Maybe the XNA layover had to be done, but the managers were completely unwilling to try and explain that, or any other life-destroying issue or even try to make it unnecessary.They did it KNOWING what it did to us! We spent HOURS explaining these things thinking they were the result of bad info, why else would ANYONE do such crappy things to anyone? Yeah, right... Mesa managed to screw people over with such alarming regularity one would guess it HAD to be planned. This "screw them I need stock options" mentality is WAY to prevelent in this business. HA was sent into BK not because it was failing, but the same mangers who signed expensive aircraft leases one day, wanted relief for their bad decisons by screwing Boeing and the lessors, the next. More "hurray for me, and screw you". The stench of Adams government backed stock repurchuse was enough to get a federal judge to remove him from his job as head of HA Holdings. Was the judge duped by union propaganda? Hardly. Gutbomb has stepped in done little except dragged out BK so he can collect a big salary and expense account....and pump up his position while the HA pilot pension goes underfunded and future prospects remain uncertain. Nice,huh? Well, this rant is a bit long but ya get the picture. Airline greed is a dysfunctional byproduct of an otherwise good concept. My dad always commented on such BS by saying that "Corporations are ment to be run by moral people as a reflection of the pride of being a honest person, not by taking advantage of its shortcomings to enrichen yourself OR destroy the business" A concept rarely found in airlines, the ones that abide by such thinking, prosper WITH employess, not in spite of them. Capt. K put his foot down and God help us if we condemn his outrage. Hey Herb, how about a new job in da islands?CatYaaak said:
Like I said before, I've been in the position of flying, working hard, for an airline that was driven to bankrupcy..then out of existance..by incompetent, greedy, self-serving senior management, not for lack of passengers. Poof!....gone...on the street. I've "been there", as captain, with those responsible for the slow hemmoraging death of a good company as passengers. Ive been in the same exact position as Captain-whatever enough times, with the SAME LOATHING for the same type of HMIC, to form a justifiable opinion. I suggest you save your patronizing "wecome to the real world" for someone who hasn't been there. Or perhaps you just can't handle that someone else (one who has) holds a different opinion of what is considered professional conduct in this particular matter of having as pax people who we may consider a threat to our jobs, but aren't one to the aircraft, pax, or crew.HAL said:
I've experienced them and the effects first hand..up until the airline I worked for shut it's doors.ChinaClipper said:
