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Hawaiian Airlines get's Laid

  • Thread starter Thread starter G4G5
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Don't believe the hype!

Watch out guys, this guy is a major snake in the grass. My wife is at AA and we watched the whole thing go down. He wasn't sorry he lied, he was just sorry he got caught. Labor relations were no better under him than they were under Crandall. Get rid of his ass before he even shows up!
 
Carty and Adams robbing HAL together....

What next? This brings visions in my mind of the commercial where those guys are standing around a box that needs to be sent overnight: We're doomed.. DOOOMED!
 
...Although I do think Carty's idea of taking over the center concourse at HNL would be a good idea for HAL. Wonder how much of a bonus he'll give himself for coming up with that idea.
 
I just book a round trip in Sept. HNL-OGG-HNL. Must have for a wedding, not willing to non rev.

Hawaiian Phone price $153 each way
Hawaiian internet price $132

Aloha internet price $70.01 each way

Alohaaaaaaa
 
G4G5 said:
I just book a round trip in Sept. HNL-OGG-HNL. Must have for a wedding, not willing to non rev.

Hawaiian Phone price $153 each way
Hawaiian internet price $132

Aloha internet price $70.01 each way

Alohaaaaaaa


Hawaiian: 11 months of profits. Beautiful new 717's. Full airplanes. http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2004/03/15/daily90.html

Aloha: Still borrowing money. Low price probably because nobody wants to fly those dirty old 737's ;)

Actually, check again in a few days. You know airfares fluctuate on an hourly basis. Also, try a different time of day for lower fares.

HAL
 
Encouraging article

HAL,

Good article. Have you heard any rumors about when the furloughees will be brought back?? Any predictions on future hiring? (I know, I know it's far off...but how far? 2 years? 3? 5? 10?)
 
aloha may be borrowing money. but that means they have credit, which you dont have when you're BK.

at least aloha can pay their bills. who wouldnt be making all kinds of profit if they didnt have to pay any of their debits. if i didnt have to pay my creditors i'd be buying beers for all at the bar all the time.

plus with carty coming your way.. you guys may never see any profit you guys make. i really feel for you guys getting carty, i was hoping for someone a little more labor friendly. you guys really deserve a fair shake.

lets just hope for some reason he's turned over a new leaf and wont hose you guys over like he did at AA
 
With the last vacancy bid last month, the promised 'future furloughs' didn't happen, and 10 were recalled because of the extra crewmembers needed for the Australia flying. Word from our chief pilot is that five of them bypassed the recall, moving another five out of furlough. He also said the airline is actively looking for three more 767 for expanded mainland flying. That would bring back another 50 - 60. Another rumor has us expanding the interisland flying this summer because of high advanced bookings. That might bring back another 10 or so. All told, just this expansion would leave only 30 - 40 still on the street.

Most of the proposed plans being offered to the bankruptcy court include explicit expansion plans. If any of them make it to fruition this summer, we could have everyone recalled and hiring start by the end of the year. Of course depending on how the bankruptcy judge rules and which plan gets picked, your mileage may vary......

Yes, we are in bankruptcy. But as Don Carty said (even if I don't appreciate his labor relations stance), our bankruptcy is different because most other airline bankruptcys signal the beginning of the rebuilding, not the end as with Hawaiian. We have already made the cuts, restructured, and are making a steady profit. Once the bankruptcy process is over this summer we'll be in a great position for growth and better times.

HAL
 
dash8driver said:
aloha may be borrowing money. but that means they have credit, which you dont have when you're BK.

at least aloha can pay their bills. who wouldnt be making all kinds of profit if they didnt have to pay any of their debits. if i didnt have to pay my creditors i'd be buying beers for all at the bar all the time.

plus with carty coming your way.. you guys may never see any profit you guys make. i really feel for you guys getting carty, i was hoping for someone a little more labor friendly. you guys really deserve a fair shake.

lets just hope for some reason he's turned over a new leaf and wont hose you guys over like he did at AA

dash8driver,

If you'd read the papers, you would realize that Hawaiian is paying ALL their current debts. It's not like a personal bankruptcy. The only reason we're in bankruptcy is Adams gamble with Boeing to get lower lease rates. He lost, and we're paying Boeing for the full leases for now.

We do have credit too, otherwise we wouldn't be looking for more 767's to lease.

And Carty is only coming in if Adams' reorganization plan is the one chosen by the bankruptcy court. Considering that Adams was bounced out by that same court I wouldn't bet on his chance of getting back in charge.

P.S. A lot of people have credit and abuse it themselves to the point of bankruptcy. Having credit also requires good management to avoid trouble.

HAL
 
Shame on you HAL!

Why you takin' shots at Aloha? Here are a couple of interesting articles for you...I'm inclined to believe the second one, the Journal always seems to do better research. Which do you think is true?

By the way, congrats on gettiing that $4M put in your retirement fund....



Hawaiian Airlines Made $133 Million Operating Turnaround in 2003
Thursday March 25, 9:00 am ET

Nation's Third Most Profitable Airline

HONOLULU--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 25, 2004--Hawaiian Airlines, Inc. today announced its final financial results for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2003, showing that the company reported an operating profit(1) of $77.5 million (including a $17.5 million security fee reimbursement from the federal government) on revenue of $706.1 million, compared to an operating loss of $55.2 million on revenue of $632.0 million for 2002.

The results reflect an operating profit turnaround of $132.7 million and Hawaiian's most profitable annual operating result ever (income statement below).

Said Joshua Gotbaum, Hawaiian's trustee, "It was an amazing year. Hawaiian's management and employees have done a spectacular job. Building on a new fleet, they have reformed almost every part of Hawaiian's operations. Hawaiian, always known for excellent service, is now also the nation's most punctual airline as well as one of the most profitable.

"Even so," Gotbaum said, "we're not resting on our laurels. Airline competition is fierce, and every year is a new chance to remind travelers about Hawaiian's unique combination of service and value."

The operational success of 2003 meant Hawaiian finished the year as the third most profitable airline in the nation, which, as Gotbaum says, "is an incredible story all by itself."

Many positive changes contributed to Hawaiian's improvement in 2003. Passenger revenue increased by $85 million, cargo revenue by $7 million. The newly acquired fleet produced savings of $41 million in aircraft maintenance, while increased use of Hawaiian's web site and direct booking saved some $10 million in distribution costs.


And then one from the WSJ-



Hawaiian Air 2003 Losses $49.5M Vs $57.4M

DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
March_25,_2004_10:34_a.m.

HONOLULU -- Hawaiian Holdings Inc.'s (HA) Hawaiian Airlines' 2003 net loss narrowed after passenger and cargo revenue both saw gains while aircraft maintenance and ticket distribution costs fell.

In a press release Thursday, the air carrier, currently operating under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, reported a net loss of $49.5 million for the year ended Dec. 31. That compares to a net loss of $57.4 million in 2002.

Revenue increased to $706.1 million from $632 million. Hawaiian said that it incurred $115.1 million in reorganization-related expenses during the year.

The company said that operating earnings, which exclude bankruptcy charges, as well as interest and tax, were $77.5 million compared with an operating loss of $55.2 million, a year ago.

Operating results for 2003 included a $17.5 million security fee reimbursement from the federal government.

Hawaiian said that passenger revenue increased by $85 million during 2003, while cargo revenue rose $7 million. The company also said its new fleet saved it $41 million in aircraft maintenance costs while direct bookings and greater use of its Web site saved it about $10 million.

These gains were partially offset by $28 million in higher aircraft rents and a $23 million decline in charter revenue.

On Tuesday, Hawaiian said Donald Carty, former chairman and chief executive of American Airlines' parent AMR Corp. (AMR), would make an investment in the company when it emerges from bankruptcy this summer and become its nonexecutive chairman.

Hawaaiian Airlines Inc. - Honolulu
Year:
2003 2002
Revenue $706,145,000 $632,038,000
Net income (49,513,000) (57,445,000)

Figures in parentheses are losses.

Operating income, which excludes bankruptcy-related charges as well as tax and interest, was $77.5 million, compared with an operating loss of $55.2 million a year earlier.

Hawaiian Airlines is a unit of Hawaiian Holdings Inc. (HA).
 
AQ Pilot,

It's just a little good natured ribbing. I have nothing but respect for our competition and the people who work there.

As far as the profit numbers, here is a short article that explains it pretty well:

http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2004/03/22/daily53.html

The summary is that the operating profit is $77.5 million. The net loss (including bankruptcy related writeoffs) was $49.5 million. A short excerpt from the article on the subject is:

Hawaiian would have posted a $49.5 net loss, still lower than the year before, if all reorganization-related costs were added in. But such costs are not normally counted as operating expenses.

Those reorganization costs topped $115 million, but most were non-cash charges like creditor claims and asset write-offs. The remaining $13 million in actual cash spent on reorganization efforts, if counted on the operating bottom line, would not have been enough to keep the airline from ending the year in the black.


HAL
 
Whew!

Good HAL...I've enjoyed your posts...I was worried you were starting to get anti Aloha on me! Good natured ribbing is always appreciated..nay, expected from competitors!

I read your article, I have never understood a lot of financial reports. They can spin them so many differen't ways, I just can't keep up.

Most importantly, I want to see all of you guys get back to work. I'm still pi$$ed at your senior guys that work more than the minimum bid hours keeping guys on the street. That is just BS. Everyone over there should be trying to get everyone back on....Selfish....that bugs me....

Couple questions I do have for you though...and these are sincere questions, not tryin' to jab you guys...but if you're having the banner year like it appears that you are, why is it so hard to pay the lease rates that you initially agree to with Boeing?

The additional aircraft you are looking for, are those to replace the couple you had to give back recently?

Again with the banner year stuff, why is management still hunting for pay cuts, not making full payments to pensions, and the like?

Where did you hear we were still borrowing money? My understanding, anyone with better info correct me if I'm wrong, is that we actually paid off one quarter of our loan that was backed by the ATSB. We too are having a great run financially....

Lastly, don't trust your management...you know that. They have been boogerin' you guys for too long and this Carty is supposed to be the King of the Boogerers...How's that for a title? Big congrats on the hopeful recalls and the expansion down to Sydney. Wish you would have been flyin down there about two months ago, I needed a ride!
 
if you're having the banner year like it appears that you are, why is it so hard to pay the lease rates that you initially agree to with Boeing?

That was Adams being the 'shark' he was. Our lease rates were negotiated during the boom times, and a year ago with planes being parked, new lease rates were lower. Adams just wanted to join that group. Obviously we could pay them and still make a profit, but the name of the game in business is maximizing profits.

The additional aircraft you are looking for, are those to replace the couple you had to give back recently?

No, the ones we gave back were 717's for interisland. These new ones will be 767's for trans-Pacific flying. There were two 767's never delivered last year because of the bankruptcy. Too bad we didn't get them then.

Again with the banner year stuff, why is management still hunting for pay cuts, not making full payments to pensions, and the like?

Recently Gotbaum came out and said that pay and benefit cuts were no longer part of the strategy. He was obviously getting too much pressure because of the continued good earnings reports. The only thing he is left going after is our pension, and even there (a couple weeks after he made that statement) he changed his mind and paid the extra $4 million into the fund.

Where did you hear we were still borrowing money?

I'm probably out of the loop there, not reading the HNL papers regularly I'm only getting the info on the HA pilot website. I guess you're probably right and I missed the latest on AQ. Sorry.

And most of all, we certainly don't trust the management. Hopefully whoever ends up owning us will have the courage to have open and friendly relations with labor. (One can dream, right?)

HAL
 
One can dream.......

I'm not sure I buy the fact that HAL could have made its lease payments to Boeing....if that were the case, the bankruptcy wouldn't have been allowed to go through. Somethin' aint right... you leased those airplanes during the 'boom time'...what would you call this period in HAL's history? Certainly, a boom of some sort eh?

Personally, I agree with Boeing, if Adams agreed to pay $X for his airplanes, then HAL should be paying $X for their airplanes...No excuse in signin' a lease and later renegin' on it even though you're poised to make money hand over fist. You may have answered all of this when you said Adams....he really is a bad apple.

I hadn't heard that Gotbaum had eased up on his concessionary tone. I hope that remains the case for you guys. I think they will still come after you...can't blame them for trying. As for your pension...get that **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing fully funded as quick as you can! With all the money you're making there is no reason not to fully fund it....now!

I was referring to the two 767's you didn't take delivery of. I assume those new ones will be taking the place of those two. I wonder what will happen with interisland flying...change is in the wind there....

Another question for you...what is the feeling amongst the furloughed guys at all of the extra flying your pilots pick up? Is there any animosity? What's the reasoning behind the senior guys doing that to the furloghees?
 
Some see being furloughed as some sort of BS right of passage and feel that since it happened to them it gives them the right to fly as much as they want. According to the contract, they can but I think it's very bad form to do so. Let me be very clear on this point though... it's only a very few individuals that are doing this, and I haven't heard much about it recently. About 6 months ago some nasty-grams ended up in those particular individuals mail boxes but that died down after a while.

Having said all that, I think that enough people stopped answering their phones on their days off that some of the recent recalls where to increase staffing. I also think our MEC should have come out with a position on this when it all started. No deals, No favors, don't answer your phone on your days off ect ect..... I can't imagine why they didn't, I guess they dropped the ball or something ;) As for animosity, I suppose it depends on the person. There are a few people that I'll never have any respect for ever again, not that I did anyway because that's the type of person they are the begin with (if you know what I mean). Things might get interesting when we all get back. Stay tuned!
 
Service is where it counts

I recently checked on Apollo the availability of seats on flights to/from HNL/OGG on both AQ and HA. Aloha was practically on most, if not, all of their flights while Hawaiian still had many seats available for sale. I wonder why people would be willing to fly on 20 year old B-737 while the brand new B-717s go half empty. Does it have anything to do with service???
 
I think Hawaiian flies to Maui more often than we do so they'd have more seats available. We fly to the Big Island more than they do.

Could be more availability....
 

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