have an interview wih the emirates , any gouge?

[Pelican 10]

I didnt know emirates was still hiring...anyone has their mailing info handy ??

 

[RoyalAviation2]

My dad was hired on with Emirates in 87' and came over from Yemenia. I grew up here in Orange County but would visit him in Dubai every winter and summer. I loved it there. I now am thinking of applying for them when I have competitive times, however from what I hear they don't even consider CRJ700 PIC time as considerable for them. So I basically have to bust my but to get on with a Jetblue or SWA only to quit and go work for them. I also have the option to fly for Ariana but I don't wanna do they're 3 year contract requirement. Typhoon- any word on if they're ever going to consider CRJ700 time?

My dad ended up quitting in 97 because they refused to transition him from the A300 to the B777 because he only had 4 years of productivity left. Biggest mistake he ever made!

 

[Gillegan]

That's very nice. I'm amazed at the fact that the company treats their employees so well!

Typhoon,
Do you want to do the honors or shall I?

 

[Midnight Mike]

That's very nice. I'm amazed at the fact that the company treats their employees so well!

I am sure that at Emirates, there are pilots bitching about something, what is paradise to one person, is hell to another....

 

[ForgedBlade]

My dad was hired on with Emirates in 87' and came over from Yemenia. I grew up here in Orange County but would visit him in Dubai every winter and summer. I loved it there. I now am thinking of applying for them when I have competitive times, however from what I hear they don't even consider CRJ700 PIC time as considerable for them. So I basically have to bust my but to get on with a Jetblue or SWA only to quit and go work for them. I also have the option to fly for Ariana but I don't wanna do they're 3 year contract requirement. Typhoon- any word on if they're ever going to consider CRJ700 time?

My dad ended up quitting in 97 because they refused to transition him from the A300 to the B777 because he only had 4 years of productivity left. Biggest mistake he ever made!

From what I've been told, they want heavy international time before you can be considered. I got lucky with that before ATA started going down the tubes. So sad.

 

[320AV8R]

Typhoon,
Do you want to do the honors or shall I?

G-Man,

Typhoonpilot works for Emirates and gets picked up by a car service at his house.

I work for a major US carrier and just spent 25 minutes in a sh!tty crew bus, enroute to a sh!tty crew lot, without air conditioning, when it was 94 degrees outside, with moderate humidity. (I won't mention the b!tchy F/As on the bus.)

And your point is.............

320AV8R

 

[typhoonpilot]

320, my friend. Gillegan works for Emirates as well and is one of my best friends. He too is a USAir refugee, although one with much more foresight than I as he was the first to join Emirates.

His comment was directed at people maybe getting an unrealistic expectation of life at Emirates. I tend to paint a very rosy picture as Emirates has been a very good career move for me and I enjoy my life and job in Dubai.

All is not perfect at Emirates. There are issues that could be handled better, as there are with all companies. The direct entry captain program is one, as is the luck of accomodations. Some people get a great accomodation, others get a crappy one. No rhyme or reason and no recourse if you don't like where they put you other than to take an allowance that is inadequate to rent a place in Dubai.

That said it is still a very good job in comparison to what is on offer in the States. I'll write more when I get back to Singapore tomorrow, for now I've got to go get ready to fly.


TP

 

[Gillegan]

G-Man,

Typhoonpilot works for Emirates and gets picked up by a car service at his house.

I work for a major US carrier and just spent 25 minutes in a sh!tty crew bus, enroute to a sh!tty crew lot, without air conditioning, when it was 94 degrees outside, with moderate humidity. (I won't mention the b!tchy F/As on the bus.)

And your point is.............

320AV8R

320AV8R,

As my good friend, Typhoon pointed out, I too work for Emirates and have been here nigh on 10 years. Without going into too much detail, I will say that it is a job like any other. I have been out of the aviation scene in the U.S. a long time now and according to my colleagues, probably don't completely understand just how rotten it has gotten there. Most of the guys arriving from the States assure me that Emirates measures up quite well compared with the current state of affairs in the U.S.. That said, there is quite a lot here to be unhappy about.



Typhoon mentioned accommodations. The company does provide accommodation - not a bad deal but there is a downside. You have no choice in where you will live. Some places are very nice and some aren't so nice. You may be put in a very nice 4 bedroom "townhouse" with nice facilities or you may end up on a busy street in a seedy part of town with the bus stop right in front of your door and mosque right across the street. (First call to prayer is around 0400 and some mosques turn up the volume quite a bit). If you don't like it, "tough, you can take the allowance". The allowance for FO's runs 30-40% below the going rate for reasonable villas and that's before the utilities which will also be on your nickel. Bottom line, if you are one of the unlucky ones and choose to find your own place to live, you will be out of pocket $15,000-$20,000 a year. Oh, and in the past year, rents have risen by about 30%.



Upgrade and Direct Entry Captains: Historically, Emirates has always been a place where you could get a relatively quick upgrade to captain on a wide-bodied aircraft. As such, Emirates was able to attract experienced first officers at below market rates. Two years ago, the decision was made to hire direct entry captains (DEC's). Many experienced and qualified FO's were bypassed despite being told at their interview that their upgrades would come between 18 to 36 months. When the initial call for DEC candidates yielded disappointing results (due to the below market rates mentioned earlier), the company gave the pilots already here the big finger and raised the pay rates for just the DEC's. I don't begrudge the guys who came here and took advantage of a good opportunity but the slap in the face to pilots already here still rankles. Oh, and don't fool yourself, there is no representation of the pilot body (or any other body of workers here - trade unions are against the law). When pilots complained (as they are wont to do), they were told, "Shut up and do what you're told." If you come here as an FO, expect to spend a long time in the right seat.



Cost of Living and Inadequate Pay Increases: Dubai is a dynamic and growing city and over the last 3 years, congestion and prices have risen dramatically to the point that the government felt compelled to raise the pay of government employees (nationals - 25%, expats - 15%) to just keep up. The pilots just got their first payraise in many years - 8%. Appreciated, but we have been losing ground here for a long time. And you will have out of pocket expenses, especially if you have school age children. If you can even get your kids into a school, the company does provide an allowance that unfortunately falls well short of the actual fees. This past school year, for two children in elementary school, I was out of pocket $13,000. If you come here as an FO with school age children, you will have a difficult time saving money (in fact, most guys I know in that situation have to dip into savings). You will sign a contract but the terms can and will change over the course of your stay.



Amount of Actual Flying: This varies from fleet to fleet but over the past year has risen dramatically. A year ago, the company decided to "re-interpret" the Flight Time and Duty Limitations resulting in time spent on a "heavy crew" not being credited fully for the purpose of FTL's. This resulted in some pilots flying as much as 140 hours in a month, operating between Australia and the U.S.. (The long way around, via Asia and Europe) Some sanity finally prevailed and the practice was stopped but along the way, the company lost vast amounts of credibility with the pilots. What does this mean to you? Once on line, don't expect more than 8 to 10 days off per month. Sometimes guys get more but that is happening less and less. Oh, and if you are just plain too tired to fly, you can always just tell them that but you'll be on your own.



Don't get me wrong, there are some good things about Emirates also. The flying is interesting, the crews cordial, the pilots are a great bunch of guys and the company gives the captain a fair amount of autonomy to manage the operation enroute. If you have a family emergency, they are generally pretty good about helping you out. Oh, and you do get picked up for your trips. The biggest point that I'm trying to make is that on the surface, it looks like it might be utopia here but it's not. It's just another flying job and it's important to understand both the good points and the bad points if you're going to uproot your family and move them 8000+ miles.

 

[320AV8R]

TP and G-man,

Thanks for the additional information.

No airline is perfect, there are ups and downs at each carrier. I guess one of your ups, (car service), coincided with one of our downs, (hot bus).

My point was that crew treatment has gone downhill. Many things that were taken for granted are now non-existent.

It seems like the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence......but when you get there, it could be a septic tank.

320AV8R

 

[Xfr8dog]

Consider jumpseating on Kalitta Air. You will most likely get a bunk to sleep in on the way over. If not, you will get a 1st class seat and catering either way. Kalitta operates out of JFK to Brussels then down to Dubai three times a week. Sunday, Wednesday and Friday starting tomorrow, July 17th. There are also many flights to Kuwait I imagine a ticket from there would be fairly inexpensive. Heres a link to our union website with the Middle East sevice update...


http://www.ibt747.org/airlines/kai/news/2005/070105kai.htm

 

[typhoonpilot]

I didnt know emirates was still hiring...anyone has their mailing info handy ??

www.emiratesgroupcareers.com


TP

 

[typhoonpilot]

My dad was hired on with Emirates in 87' and came over from Yemenia. I grew up here in Orange County but would visit him in Dubai every winter and summer. I loved it there. I now am thinking of applying for them when I have competitive times, however from what I hear they don't even consider CRJ700 PIC time as considerable for them. So I basically have to bust my but to get on with a Jetblue or SWA only to quit and go work for them. I also have the option to fly for Ariana but I don't wanna do they're 3 year contract requirement. Typhoon- any word on if they're ever going to consider CRJ700 time?

The CRJ thing is a problem. I wish they would consider guys with good PIC time in CRJs as well, but they don't. It is possible that they will change this mindset, but not until they stop getting guys with narowbody and/or widebody time.

I wouldn't say you have to get on with SWA or JBLU to get the required time. A lot of the charter or cargo airlines that fly 747, MD-11, DC-10, B737, A320, etc would be a good route. Honestly, if I was working for SWA or JBLU I wouldn't leave to come to Emirates.

TP

 

[typhoonpilot]

320AV8R,

As my good friend, Typhoon pointed out, I too work for Emirates and have been here nigh on 10 years. Without going into too much detail, I will say that it is a job like any other. I have been out of the aviation scene in the U.S. a long time now and according to my colleagues, probably don't completely understand just how rotten it has gotten there. Most of the guys arriving from the States assure me that Emirates measures up quite well compared with the current state of affairs in the U.S.. That said, there is quite a lot here to be unhappy about.



Typhoon mentioned accommodations. The company does provide accommodation - not a bad deal but there is a downside. You have no choice in where you will live. Some places are very nice and some aren't so nice. You may be put in a very nice 4 bedroom "townhouse" with nice facilities or you may end up on a busy street in a seedy part of town with the bus stop right in front of your door and mosque right across the street. (First call to prayer is around 0400 and some mosques turn up the volume quite a bit). If you don't like it, "tough, you can take the allowance". The allowance for FO's runs 30-40% below the going rate for reasonable villas and that's before the utilities which will also be on your nickel. Bottom line, if you are one of the unlucky ones and choose to find your own place to live, you will be out of pocket $15,000-$20,000 a year. Oh, and in the past year, rents have risen by about 30%.



Upgrade and Direct Entry Captains: Historically, Emirates has always been a place where you could get a relatively quick upgrade to captain on a wide-bodied aircraft. As such, Emirates was able to attract experienced first officers at below market rates. Two years ago, the decision was made to hire direct entry captains (DEC's). Many experienced and qualified FO's were bypassed despite being told at their interview that their upgrades would come between 18 to 36 months. When the initial call for DEC candidates yielded disappointing results (due to the below market rates mentioned earlier), the company gave the pilots already here the big finger and raised the pay rates for just the DEC's. I don't begrudge the guys who came here and took advantage of a good opportunity but the slap in the face to pilots already here still rankles. Oh, and don't fool yourself, there is no representation of the pilot body (or any other body of workers here - trade unions are against the law). When pilots complained (as they are wont to do), they were told, "Shut up and do what you're told." If you come here as an FO, expect to spend a long time in the right seat.



Cost of Living and Inadequate Pay Increases: Dubai is a dynamic and growing city and over the last 3 years, congestion and prices have risen dramatically to the point that the government felt compelled to raise the pay of government employees (nationals - 25%, expats - 15%) to just keep up. The pilots just got their first payraise in many years - 8%. Appreciated, but we have been losing ground here for a long time. And you will have out of pocket expenses, especially if you have school age children. If you can even get your kids into a school, the company does provide an allowance that unfortunately falls well short of the actual fees. This past school year, for two children in elementary school, I was out of pocket $13,000. If you come here as an FO with school age children, you will have a difficult time saving money (in fact, most guys I know in that situation have to dip into savings). You will sign a contract but the terms can and will change over the course of your stay.



Amount of Actual Flying: This varies from fleet to fleet but over the past year has risen dramatically. A year ago, the company decided to "re-interpret" the Flight Time and Duty Limitations resulting in time spent on a "heavy crew" not being credited fully for the purpose of FTL's. This resulted in some pilots flying as much as 140 hours in a month, operating between Australia and the U.S.. (The long way around, via Asia and Europe) Some sanity finally prevailed and the practice was stopped but along the way, the company lost vast amounts of credibility with the pilots. What does this mean to you? Once on line, don't expect more than 8 to 10 days off per month. Sometimes guys get more but that is happening less and less. Oh, and if you are just plain too tired to fly, you can always just tell them that but you'll be on your own.



Don't get me wrong, there are some good things about Emirates also. The flying is interesting, the crews cordial, the pilots are a great bunch of guys and the company gives the captain a fair amount of autonomy to manage the operation enroute. If you have a family emergency, they are generally pretty good about helping you out. Oh, and you do get picked up for your trips. The biggest point that I'm trying to make is that on the surface, it looks like it might be utopia here but it's not. It's just another flying job and it's important to understand both the good points and the bad points if you're going to uproot your family and move them 8000+ miles.

Gillegan does a very good job of pointing out the downside. I will take exception with the day/time off portion. Gillegan has a position that only gives him those 8 to 10 days off, but he is in Dubai with his family most nights. I, on the other hand, am a line pilot ( although that is about to change ) and have 17 days of this month. That is the best I can normally do. Sometimes I have only 10, but as I tell people, it depends on what trips I've bid. If I bid a trip with 4 days off in Singapore, or 3 days off in Jakarta and then say I only have 8 days off in Dubai, is that really a good way to put it? Granted, you sometimes don't get that choice and are simply rostered for those 6 day Singapore or 9 day Bangkok-Sydney trips when you would rather be in Dubai, but I guarantee you I feel like I get ample time off in Dubai.

It's all about perspective. When someone comes here from the States where we are lucky to get a couple of weeks of vacation per year and start with 42 days of vacation, we think that is good. When someone comes from Europe that might actually be a reduction from what they were getting. If someone came here from a regional in the States they would probably like the schedule very much, whereas someone from a UK charter airline probably hates it.

Bottom line is to do your research and figure out what you want to get out of a company/job. Armed with Gillegan's information, and what I have provided, a person could make a reasonably well informed decision as to whether or not Emirates is a good career move. Then you really need to visit Dubai, preferably with your wife, to see if it is a place you could happily live.

TP

 

[Flyer1015]

Hey Tim,


Talking about EK schedules/days off, I had a question.

You guys do preferential bidding or something like that, where each pilot group (i.e. 777 F/O) is broken down into groups A, B, C, D, and E. Then, each month, the groups are rotated, and the top groups get their best (top) choices, whereas the bottom groups probably don't.

So that means that even if you're a 20-year Captain, there will be many months when you'll be at the bottom when it comes to bidding for lines ?

Also, say you're a pretty senior F/O or Capt, and desperately need one week off for the month of August. However, you're in the bottom group for bidding, and you don't get your choices that you wanted. For the week you wanted off, say, you're scheduled to fly. Will EK accomodate your needs in that sense? (Say that the week off was needed to go to a brother's wedding in the US). Basically, how far will EK go to accomodate you, or where do they draw the line?

 

[frenchy]

Yes i am with spirit just started school on the bus.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Hey Tim,


Talking about EK schedules/days off, I had a question.

You guys do preferential bidding or something like that, where each pilot group (i.e. 777 F/O) is broken down into groups A, B, C, D, and E. Then, each month, the groups are rotated, and the top groups get their best (top) choices, whereas the bottom groups probably don't.

So that means that even if you're a 20-year Captain, there will be many months when you'll be at the bottom when it comes to bidding for lines ?

Also, say you're a pretty senior F/O or Capt, and desperately need one week off for the month of August. However, you're in the bottom group for bidding, and you don't get your choices that you wanted. For the week you wanted off, say, you're scheduled to fly. Will EK accomodate your needs in that sense? (Say that the week off was needed to go to a brother's wedding in the US). Basically, how far will EK go to accomodate you, or where do they draw the line?

Hi Flyer:

As for the first part, yes, it is true that a 20 year Captain could be towards the bottom and not get his preferences during his bottom few rotations. As a junior Captain or junior F.O. you can bid way out of senioirity during your top months. So you'll like the system when you are junior, but begin to like it less and less the more senior you get.

The second part is more difficult to answer. We can trip trade to get days off, but you can't trade reserve days away. Generally guys are pretty good at trading to help you out. If there is some family emergency the company has been pretty good at giving guys time off. I doubt a wedding would qualify for family emergency though.


TP

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I doubt a wedding would qualify for family emergency though.


TP

Might depend on the bride.

 

[330 man]

I know that this thread is quite dead, but I wanted to address one point that Typhoonpilot and Gillegan made. Firstly, I consider both of these guys to be good friends of mine also. Like them I am a former USAir refugee and have been here for a couple of years.

Your monthly schedule is also determined greatly on your fleet. On the Airbus fleet, flying mostly 340 I can usually get 14-15 days off. One JFK, 2 Osaka, and one Perth is 12 days of flying and adds up to 90 hours. I can usually do this in my top bid months. Even in the lower bid months, I can usually get 85-90 hours with 12 days off. We do recurrent every 6 months and it is 3 days. In those months you will work more days. The schedule here is to me much better than USAir. I am home so much more now that my wife asks me to pick up time!

The 777 fleet flies a different schedule, but as they get more airplanes, and start flying more ultra long haul, they will fly less days for more time.

I am more like Typhoonpilot regarding the view of Emirates. I think this is a great job, with the associated problems, that any large, growing airline will have. All 3 of us agree that the DEC program has been the single biggest mistake Emirates has made. I was one of the F/O's passed over for upgrade while hiring Captains off the street. Even with that, I will still upgrade faster here on the 330 than I would have at U on the 320. (obviously before the merger was announced)

Bottom line is if you are flying for a crapy airline and want something new this is a good job. But unless your company is close to shutting down, I would not leave a left seat job to come here. You must be will to roll with the punches at Emirates, be flexable, and you will enjoy the job.

Got to go now, the car is waiting!

Regards,

330 Man

 

[ForgedBlade]

Anyone going to be there on 8-10 October?

Looking forward to staying at the Le Meridian and going through the process.