Harsh Reality Interrupts Southwest Myth

[328dude]

It's all that kool aid they've been drinking over the years.

PHXFLYR

Yea, I hear the Kool Aid at Parkers den is so much better.

 

[slaquer5]

When the fuel hedging runs out, and you can't sell seats for $99 anymore,

We have been hedging for over 25 yrs and will be for the next 25 yrs. so I do like the way you think.

 

[Flyby1206]

Its always a bad idea to be the highest paid for your equipment. Here are the facts for 737 CA payscales:
DAL $139-151
AMR 149-161
CAL 140-155 (avg)
UA 120-133
US/AWA 118-135 (avg)
SWA 174-198
Airtran 102-153
Alaska 130-154

 

[DashTrash400]

Its always a bad idea to be the highest paid for your equipment. Here are the facts for 737 CA payscales:
DAL $139-151
AMR 149-161
CAL 140-155 (avg)
UA 120-133
US/AWA 118-135 (avg)
SWA 174-198
Airtran 102-153
Alaska 130-154

I don't usually fall for flaimbait so I'm not sure it you're being tongue in cheek on this one or not. If you really mean it - and we've been hearing from an increasing number of people who do, although often at the regional level - shame on you. That sort of attitude will be the downfall of the profession. Can you imagine what kind of job this would be if our predecessors had been oh so careful to not be the highest paid!?

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Its always a bad idea to be the highest paid for your equipment.

'Cept if you are the one cashing the check. If average is X, you are getting X+Y.If the company comes to you and says "you make too much, we are going to have to get you back to what everyone else is paying"(X), then those years you made X+Y will be > the amount that the person who was making X for the same period.

Now if a man leaves New York riding a Gnu traveling west at three miles per hour, and woman riding a midget with a wooden leg leaves St. Louis traveling west at one mile per hour, at what point will the diameter of an orange become the same as a pus-swollen infected hair.

 

[mdf]

Time Out!!!!

What happened to the SWA/FO's smackdown on General Lee. That was classic! Did the moderators remove it?

 

[Flyby1206]

I don't usually fall for flaimbait so I'm not sure it you're being tongue in cheek on this one or not. If you really mean it - and we've been hearing from an increasing number of people who do, although often at the regional level - shame on you. That sort of attitude will be the downfall of the profession. Can you imagine what kind of job this would be if our predecessors had been oh so careful to not be the highest paid!?

I didnt mean for this to be flamebait. I just think that regardless of what you and I want to be paid, the company can't sustain payscales that are 50% higher than the rest of the industry average. When you look at the big picture of the industry it is easier to see what doesnt fit in with the rest. I think SWA runs a great business and deserves to be paid at the higher end of the payscales. I do not wish to get into a pissing match and I hope they can maintain their current payscales, but I do remember not long ago when DAL and UAL payscales were much higher than anyone else.

 

[momalley81]

I didnt mean for this to be flamebait. I just think that regardless of what you and I want to be paid, the company can't sustain payscales that are 50% higher than the rest of the industry average. When you look at the big picture of the industry it is easier to see what doesnt fit in with the rest. I think SWA runs a great business and deserves to be paid at the higher end of the payscales. I do not wish to get into a pissing match and I hope they can maintain their current payscales, but I do remember not long ago when DAL and UAL payscales were much higher than anyone else.

You forget one major point. SWA pilots have been and will continue to be much more productive than their counterparts at DAL, UAL, AMR etc.

You can afford to pay your pilots much when they are more productive.

 

[Skybus]

My understanding of our mindset has/(had) always been that the trip/hourly pay was below that of our counterparts. HOWEVER the W-2 was close or equal to the OAL. This seemed to change in the late 90's early 2000s with all the chest pounding at UAL, DL, AMR, of tope pay plus 1%. Apparently the newer generation of SW avaiators jumped onboard with the same mantra. In a nut shell we worked harder to get the same pay. Today we work harder for more pay by default. One of 2 things WILL occur. The OAL will regain their lost wages and we will once again be back in the pack or...........


As much as many would like to talk about our productivity and blah blah blah. We cannot loose our significant cost advantage. I cannot believe how many people actually believe that the recent negative news is al a conspiracy during contract times. We ARE loosing our cost advantage. Will we retain/regain the sizeable advantage?? Only time will tell.

Bus

 

[YourPilotFriend]

You forget one major point. SWA pilots have been and will continue to be much more productive than their counterparts at DAL, UAL, AMR etc.

You can afford to pay your pilots much when they are more productive.

The company utilizes the staff better than the legacies because of quick turns. The pilots are the allowed to fly more passengers that way. However, in any given year SW pilots fly more passengers, but legacy pilots fly way more RPM's. Pretty much every legacy has given up work rule concessions to be more productive than SW pilots, and they are paid less while being more productive.

 

[pgcfii2002]

I blame Mesa.

 

[SWA/FO]

What happened to the SWA/FO's smackdown on General Lee. That was classic! Did the moderators remove it?

Yeah, put it back!!!! Or I'll just type it again and again.

 

[capt. megadeth]

As much as many would like to talk about our productivity and blah blah blah. We cannot loose our significant cost advantage. I cannot believe how many people actually believe that the recent negative news is al a conspiracy during contract times. We ARE loosing our cost advantage. Will we retain/regain the sizeable advantage?? Only time will tell.

Bus

Holy smokes! A SWA pilot that didn't let the hallucinogenics affect him/her in new hire class! I don't believe it! Are you an impostor????

 

[Bake]

who told you they give us drugs in new hire class (recurrent too)?

 

[ivauir]

As much as many would like to talk about our productivity and blah blah blah. We cannot loose our significant cost advantage. I cannot believe how many people actually believe that the recent negative news is al a conspiracy during contract times. We ARE loosing our cost advantage. Will we retain/regain the sizeable advantage?? Only time will tell.

Bus

Put down the koolaid dude ... out side of contract time they show all these great slides during EPT showing how we are not losing our advantage. Nothing changed, but the slides are gone. I'm not saying we don't have to watch our backs, or that the head shead is telling lies. What I am saying is watch the emphasis shift. There is always bad news as well as good news, but they sure are hard selling the bad news right now.

We do need to maintain our advantage, and this pilot group will do that. But don't start giving back raises we don't even have yet (is that you Trent?). If GK wants to convince me to take a pay cut he has 25 million arguments that will convince me.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath ... we had ONE quarter that wasn't as good as we'd like. We still made a profit. If that is what a bad quarter looks like I'll take it!

 

[jball2]

I always tell my son (I got this from his teacher) to be a STAR. Stop, Take a deep breath And Relax. Its been working, really!

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I cannot believe how many people actually believe that the recent negative news is al a conspiracy during contract times. We ARE loosing our cost advantage. Will we retain/regain the sizeable advantage?? Only time will tell.

This drone wondered off the SWA Borg collective and is aware of his reallity.

 

[AA717driver]

If you are making a profit, you don't take cuts. EVER.

Hang in there SWA guys, I know times are rough... TC

 

[Flycatcher99]

Hum? Some of the post sound plain scared don't they? The first time they hear their management talking "hard times on the horizon". 61 out of 73 markets loosing money. Ouch!

Getting really tired of the shortsightedness of this "61 of 73 markets" statement. Of course, I should be used to it, given our collective society's obtuse outlook on our nation's status in general, and in the global community, what with everyone tired of us dabbling in the middle east, as if there were actually some kind of threat by extremists! Amazing how unimportant 9/11 has become. Ah, but that's another subject.

Back to the "61 of 73" quote, this is a classic misrepresentation of SWA's performance. Sounds like 61 of 73 cities, doesn't it? It's 61 of 73 city pairs, folks, out of a thousand, and only those started in the last couple of years, during which the company endures known startup costs, and during which they likely do not expect to immediately gain back their costs. SWA is in a market for the long haul, and plans to regain their investments over time, which is why they are so slow to enter a new market in the first place. Where were the articles two months after the addition of winglets, condemning the company for such a wasteful endeavor, one that had used up so much money?!

Did the brilliant author of this statistic take the time to see how much money has been "lost" (or not) on the thousand other city pairs that have existed, and not just the ones in Texas and California? Why is there no emphasis on SWA's response that even BWI lost money in the beginning, and now is a profound success?

Just another example of how fun it is to report doom and gloom, especially concerning the one successful airline. Also an example of how fun it is for some to consume the doom and gloom and dish it on to others with embellishment added, regardless of how inaccurate.

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

Guys..

There are folks that just sit around all day and think of ways of messing with certain stocks.Very often the manor or means that they use has NOTHING to do with facts.In some cases its plain outright illegal to spread certain types of misinformation.

The responce to this is a misguided emotional responce.
People shy away from stocks or companies based upon this widely reported distortion with total disregard for the facts.

Kinda like our hurricane season.
When they announced the storm total FORECAST oil prices went up.Nothing to do with any FACTS...Just a forecast.

Or..How about the guy thats always telling you what stock he thinks is hot.What do you think happens EVERY morning after his show?

So a guy that has made a living running airlines into the ground comes along and says SWA is screwing up their business plain after 36 years of being profitable.

You have to ask yourself..

Whats in it for him and why is he all of a sudden in the news?
What was the reporters name and whats his history with regard to the airline business.
Why would a newspaper run a story that only told part of the facts?Ect..ect.

What ever happens it will be well thought out by some very smart people.

Trust me when i say that they dont pay attention to hired mouth pieces or out of work airline CEOs just looking for a check.

Musta been a pretty slow news day for them to have to dig up this junk.

Move along..Nothing here to see.

 

[RVSM]

Sounds like 61 of 73 cities, doesn't it? It's 61 of 73 city pairs, folks, out of a thousand, and only those started in the last couple of years, during which the company endures known startup costs, and during which they likely do not expect to immediately gain back their costs.

Actually out of 3342.
3342 daily departures on Monday

 

[Flycatcher99]

Actually out of 3342.
3342 daily departures on Monday

True, concerning number of departures. I was referring to city pairs, of which I'm not sure of the exact number, but I'm guessing it's 10 times the "73" markets mentioned in the article.

 

[Golden Falcon]

How'd u get your picture up as an avatar TC???

 

[canyonblue]

Holy smokes! A SWA pilot that didn't let the hallucinogenics affect him/her in new hire class! I don't believe it! Are you an impostor????

No, he's a Dispatcher. So naturally he thinks the pilots are overpaid.

 

[The Prussian]

No, he's a Dispatcher. So naturally he thinks the pilots are overpaid.

...and he also thinks for himself....not a bad thing.......as does Wall Street....witness our stock performance of late...