Had enough yet?

[doh]

You guys are tempting me. I haven’t been on the porn site in a couple weeks. I may have to check it our. Is MR the former USAir reject? Or the blowhard 300 guy?

 

[doh]

Okay, I succumbed. MR is the USAir reject. And he is back to his lying ways, surprise, surprise. He is claiming in one post that he lost his triple overtime for going over 14 hours.


27.2(c)(1) Overtime for Time Worked in Excess of 12 hours
Time worked in excess of 12 hours but less than 14 hours in a given duty day will be paid at the hourly rate + 1?2 or (time & 1?2).
27.2(c)(2) Overtime for Time Worked in Excess in 14 hours
Time worked in excess 14 hours in a given duty day will be paid at 3 x hourly rate

Obviously, mickey rotten cabbage is a lying POS who is misleading the porn site Tools! Per the MCBA, you still get triple time if you are stupid enough to go over 14 hours. The difference is that you can no longer force me to participate in your stupidity.

 

[jetmaster727]

Okay, I succumbed. MR is the USAir reject. And he is back to his lying ways, surprise, surprise. He is claiming in one post that he lost his triple overtime for going over 14 hours.


27.2(c)(1) Overtime for Time Worked in Excess of 12 hours
Time worked in excess of 12 hours but less than 14 hours in a given duty day will be paid at the hourly rate + 1?2 or (time & 1?2).
27.2(c)(2) Overtime for Time Worked in Excess in 14 hours
Time worked in excess 14 hours in a given duty day will be paid at 3 x hourly rate

Obviously, mickey rotten cabbage is a lying POS who is misleading the porn site Tools! Per the MCBA, you still get triple time if you are stupid enough to go over 14 hours. The difference is that you can no longer force me to participate in your stupidity.

Mike used to be a standup guy; now a total *****

 

[doh]

Mike used to be a standup guy; now a total *****

He really is now a total *****

 

[Imissmypilot]

The problem with MR is he is stubborn as hell. I find conversing with teenage girls less frustrating. Once he gets an idea in his head he is right or walking a higher purposed line no amount of reason or fact can change it. His arguments can be as circuitous as the prop on a King Air and it won't matter. It's like this: if he has an idea in his head you wear purple on St. Patrick's day you would have an easier time getting a pit bull to ignore pot roast.

I'm an observer - I remember it well. What ended up happening is he posted a few innocuous questions / concerns on yammer earlier on. At that point I believe he was truly on the fence. But Phil and I believe WJ (and maybe someone else too) praised him as some Uber intelligent anti union god and the cement in his head dried while drunk on the compliment.

That's the problem with many Flexjetters. Their head is so far up there own ass there is no hope. MR is just a prime example. And a lost cause.

 

[jetmaster727]

The problem with MR is he is stubborn as hell. I find conversing with teenage girls less frustrating. Once he gets an idea in his head he is right or walking a higher purposed line no amount of reason or fact can change it. His arguments can be as circuitous as the prop on a King Air and it won't matter. It's like this: if he has an idea in his head you wear purple on St. Patrick's day you would have an easier time getting a pit bull to ignore pot roast.

I'm an observer - I remember it well. What ended up happening is he posted a few innocuous questions / concerns on yammer earlier on. At that point I believe he was truly on the fence. But Phil and I believe WJ (and maybe someone else too) praised him as some Uber intelligent anti union god and the cement in his head dried while drunk on the compliment.

That's the problem with many Flexjetters. Their head is so far up there own ass there is no hope. MR is just a prime example. And a lost cause.

But here's what's totally weird about Mike. For years he was clueless about anything happening at his company , Flexjet. He was so out of it he would call me to ask what his current daily rate was. Then suddenly when the Union became a reality he was an expert on all things involving the Union drive. Now he's soo knowledgable about deserting the Union. How ironic !!

 

[doh]

Talked to a pilot yesterday who said the instructor who lost his arm was using his position to bully pilots into signing cards. If this happens to you when you are in the schoolhouse, call the stewards hotline. If you need the number, pm me!

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Another sign of desperation! The card drive is turning out to be another failure. FW claims the response has been good, but if that were true, they would have had an announcement by now. Now assume we loose Union representation, what do you think would happen? Not get another raise for 10 years? Just ask the people in the office.

 

[doh]

IMMP, I heard WJ is finally going to retire. Any truth to that rumor?

 

[Imissmypilot]

IMMP, I heard WJ is finally going to retire. Any truth to that rumor?

Well could only be so lucky. Maybe we are. The anti-union vitriol level will go down a few notches with him gone despite the fact he doesn't do **** other than bitch constantly.

Here's the thing: I like him a lot. I consider him, in all of his eccentricity, a friend. In the early days of the takeover he was very pro-union. More so than anyone else daring to utter anything in those early days. But after the Teamsters were chosen he soured. Ironically, for all of his anti-Teamster BS he is actually one of the ones who knows for a fact no one else will touch us since he was actively involved in the initial explorations. I don't know this because of my involvement (which was none) but because he actually tried to recruit me.

Intetestly quite a few of the names on the decert train were very pro-union at one point, either since DAC or in some of the earlier efforts under Bombardier. These guys know first hand no one union is really different from the other with the exception of niche scope and expertise. It's the primary reason the Teamsters are really the only choice. Anyone who tries to argue differently has their head up their ass. I would go on but my posts are always long winded as is... but suffice to say most of these decert guys are actually pro-union they are just bull headed anti Teamster. They simply do not see or do not believe Frank'n'Beans have no intention of actually doing a real union.

Anyway, the last I heard W mentioned this company in particular is a combination of a young man's game and a sinking ship. He was planning to ride it out until one of those two issues culminated into his departure. Wonder which one ended up hitting him first?

 

[Imissmypilot]

Another sign of desperation! The card drive is turning out to be another failure. FW claims the response has been good, but if that were true, they would have had an announcement by now. Now assume we loose Union representation, what do you think would happen? Not get another raise for 10 years? Just ask the people in the office.

Not so sure about that. My understanding is the Teamster drive stayed just a hair under the threshold for months. Do not underestimate these guys. If it's true some of the rumoured tactics are a reality then I certainly wouldn't.

However, the length of time it's taking does not look good for their actual chances of winning a vote. I know for a fact a good percentage of cards were sent in under false pretenses and misunderstanding. They were conned into believing this was a simple representation vote. Choice A or Choice B. They had no idea we could actually lose all representation. You point that out to these guys and they start asking how to get their card back. I've had that conversation at least a dozen times.

Phil better be careful about all the "laws" he's so happy to point out. Because I'll tell you what: I'm willing to personally sue them into bankruptcy if their ruse ****s up my career. There's a difference between unfortunate and unavoidable fairness that causes a pilot to "lose" (like arbritrated contract issues) and culpable fraud.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Yes, you are not the only one waiting to sue. Their plan includes suing the successor union and all of the participants individually. I will bet it will cost them more than 1.56%.

 

[Honorstudent]

You can bet I will be in support of that !

 

[shanes123]

Ditto...

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

So, If these bigshots are making 200,000 (just to make the numbers easy) times 2% (not 1.56% to make the numbers easy) that equals 4,000. So, take the top 20 anti-union guys and sue them individually. That gives them $80,000. The company has taught the Union council how to delay and drive up the litigation costs. I am not privy to the litigation expenses, but I would guess $ 80.000 would not last more than 8 sessions. Just like the company tried to bankrupt the local, without help loyal support from national. Individuals that have been wronged by the company and don't get proper representation, have a cause for action and opens them to litigation. Do these individuals participating in the decert vote really thing the company has their back?

 

[Imissmypilot]

Frank'n'Beans owe the pilots several things if they are to be considered seriously:

1.) A list of the name and numbers of the pilot organizing committee. They required it from the IBT so why not the same transparency?

2.) A written and signed guarantee they intend to form a union and represent by these POC members. If it's less than say 10, then an explanation of how that's going to work with just a handful of people and no oversight entity assisting them... I also believe the union released their interim negotiating committee names this early on to so I want to know who's going to negotiate on my behalf.

3.) A timeline regarding their priorities - is it ISL, CBA negotiations (remember its way more than section 6 type talks if we start over) Weingarten rights security. Do pilots really want to risk starting from complete scratch regarding even simple but abused issues such as fatigue call process without an idea of the plan to get these things back and an associated timeline?

4.) The name of the legal firm we will retain for purposes of this new representation and a schedule of their fees, especially in regard to travel neccessary for representation at negotiations. They should know this by now or else they are not serious regarding representing us.

5.) The positions they intend to fill (and how) for administration as well as the proposed location of administrative offices. Will it be Cleveland (makes more sense) or Dallas?

6.) A financial plan. How will dues he collected? When will dues start? What percentage? How will expenses be paid for things like negotiations, grievance hearings, travel etc...

There's more but I have a feeling since they will not be able to answer those effectively I do not need to waste my time with more...

Maybe it's time Frank'n'Beans realize these things have to be a lot more concretely thought out than one thinks or Ricci will eat us for lunch. Maybe as regular pilots ponder these things they will see the Frank'n'Beans critical, obstructionist and vitriolic attitude toward the IBT is nothing more than self serving IGMs banter for an audience of one.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Maybe as regular pilots ponder these things they will see the Frank'n'Beans critical, obstructionist and vitriolic attitude toward the IBT is nothing more than self serving IGMs banter for an audience of one.

Which reminds me I wanted to say if I hear one more IGM claim all of the abuse they've suffered for standing up against the IBT I think I'll vomit. You can't claim abuse when the entire premise of your protest is to "get you some" from the FoK trough. You are cowards and you don't get to me lecture me against using that word, regardless of how quickly "GulfGuy" caved to your silly indignation. The definition of a coward is inherently akin to only being worried about yourself. You do not care about your fellow pilot. You never have and you never will. Some of you sit well below me on the ISL yet you make 100k more because you will willing to screw me. Go cry to your mama. You get no sympathy from me.

For years some of you walked around this company not even knowing our payscale or vacation policy. You would openly brag about not worrying about details. You were that out of touch. Some of you STILL brag you've never read a single union communication, so you don't even know what you are fighting against.

But then when you learned being anti-union could get you some Ricci love you became the resident experts of the NLRB, the NMB, McCaskillBond, the SCOTUS etc... You are jokes. And a cowards. And nothing more than "useful idiots". Ricci loves him a,good obedient useful idiot. A day your IGM status is proof.

A little reality based attack to shed light on your Quid Pro Quo arrangement with Ricci (whether or not you recognize it) is not something you get to whine about you out of touch cowards.

 

[el raton]

Which reminds me I wanted to say if I hear one more IGM claim all of the abuse they've suffered for standing up against the IBT I think I'll vomit. You can't claim abuse when the entire premise of your protest is to "get you some" from the FoK trough. You are cowards and you don't get to me lecture me against using that word, regardless of how quickly "GulfGuy" caved to your silly indignation. The definition of a coward is inherently akin to only being worried about yourself. You do not care about your fellow pilot. You never have and you never will. Some of you sit well below me on the ISL yet you make 100k more because you will willing to screw me. Go cry to your mama. You get no sympathy from me.

For years some of you walked around this company not even knowing our payscale or vacation policy. You would openly brag about not worrying about details. You were that out of touch. Some of you STILL brag you've never read a single union communication, so you don't even know what you are fighting against.

But then when you learned being anti-union could get you some Ricci love you became the resident experts of the NLRB, the NMB, McCaskillBond, the SCOTUS etc... You are jokes. And a cowards. And nothing more than "useful idiots". Ricci loves him a,good obedient useful idiot. A day your IGM status is proof.

A little reality based attack to shed light on your Quid Pro Quo arrangement with Ricci (whether or not you recognize it) is not something you get to whine about you out of touch cowards.

Agree with him or not, I think it’s fair to say that GulfGuy has held his own. And he’s doing it by himself.

 

[Propilot77]

Well said IMMP.....well said indeed!

 

[TexasChallenger]

Agree with him or not, I think it’s fair to say that GulfGuy has held his own. And he’s doing it by himself.

No truer words have ever been said. I feel like I’ll get in the way if I start chiming in! But it would be great for someone like IMMP, who obviously puts a lot of thought into this stuff, to provide some back up fire power.

 

[Imissmypilot]

No don't get me wrong - I'm extremely appreciative of all GulfGuy does on that board. And after a few initial concerns he was simply teeing up home runs for the opposition I have come to appreciate his work. But in my opinion it is too polite and far from the reality of how angry most of us are about how all of this has all turned out. Additionally, I am still a little off put but his implication that discussions on flightinfo or the vuh are unproductive but it's a personal issue and I'm getting over it.

What I hate for him is his hands are somewhat tied entirely because of the nature of the board: Frank Woelke knows his identity. As a result he has to be very diplomatic. I wonder if he really feels that diplomatic deep down or if he is as pissed as we all ought to be.

In my personal opinion, anonymity is the only way within this pilot group to have honest and meaningful discussion. I am not registered on the porn board because I fear I would not be able to keep from posting. Since I do not trust Frank (for very good fact based reasons) I am not putting my career in jeopardy. So kudos to Gulfguy for being less of a ***** than me.

I posted a list of questions that I'd truly like answered but there's a secondary motive. My hope is as pilots go through the list of questions and consider honest answers some lights might go off in their head. They might realize 1.) We have to have an established union if we have any shot 2.) Perhaps the 1108 has been on the receiving end of some unfair criticism and 3.) We have no one to blame for our current place in the process but ourselves. We keep shooting ourselves in the foot and helping Ricci run his clock.

The fact is the decert drive is a distraction we can't afford. Whether you love the IBT or hate the IBT no longer matters. Our backs are up against a wall and we can't afford to remain splintered, childish or apathetic. Ricci continuing this silly arbitration in light of what is essentially Supreme Court saying he has no case should be a signal to us our lack of solidarity has handed him a deck of cards we must get back. The time to be anything other than 100% unified has passed. The debate has been fun but it's time to tell Frank'n'Beans to take a hike.