HA pilots approve TA

[Hansoma]

Name? Initials? Most of our guys are great, but of course there are always a couple at any airline that are horrible to fly with.

Ok, it's me, I confess.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Congrats on the Contract....

Now for the REALLY important part, when will the interviews begin! PLEASE!

 

[IAHERJ]

Good news indeed! Glad to see airlines moving forward in contract negotiations and in the arena of pilot pay rate increases and improvements to work rules. We all need to look at inflation costs over the next few years and make sure our new contracts cover the expected costs of living in this new "economy". No sarcasm intended, btw: I voted for Obama. I'm just concerned that we will all accept pay rate increases that don't even keep up with the inflation expected over the next decade. Everyone keep their eye on the ball. Congrats to the Hawaiian guys! See you out in HNL soon!

 

[Orionpilot]

Hal ta

Ok, it's me, I confess.

Somehow I always knew it was you, and now its confirmed!

OP

 

[HAL]

Ok, it's me, I confess.

Well that's a given. I was just wondering if it was anyone else I wasn't aware of.

HAL

 

[xanderman]

It's on its way guys!

Here's the first pic of the new addition. Here's to a bright future for all the HAL pilots and the wannabe's such as myself.

http://berad.org/hawaiian-airbus.jpg

 

[pipejockey]

Good news indeed! Glad to see airlines moving forward in contract negotiations and in the arena of pilot pay rate increases and improvements to work rules. We all need to look at inflation costs over the next few years and make sure our new contracts cover the expected costs of living in this new "economy". No sarcasm intended, btw: I voted for Obama. I'm just concerned that we will all accept pay rate increases that don't even keep up with the inflation expected over the next decade. Everyone keep their eye on the ball. Congrats to the Hawaiian guys! See you out in HNL soon!

I both like this post, yet hate it as well! I am thrilled to actually see someone bring up the effect of inflation. Seems pilots can't wrap their heads around it based on the discussions I have had with other pilots in regards to the way compensation has nosedived over the past 9 years. But this new contract is NOT a move forward in the bargaining pattern of contract negotiations as our very own union seems to think, as indicated by Praters statement on it. Yet more shortsightedness by ALPA.

Our own union calls the Hawaiian contract just signed, a forward movement of the bargaining pattern of our airline contracts. WHAT??? a 15% raise for 717 and 20% raise for 767 over the course of a 68 month contract is moving the bargaining pattern forward?? Hey ALPA, get your heads out of your asses!! Since you all are too dumb to figure this out for yourself, 68 months is well over 5 years. Lets see now, the average rate of inflation over the past 25 years has been 3% per year. That means if your pay hasn't gone up by the same amount per year, guess what? You are not earning as much year over year. In other words... YOUR PAY HAS GONE DOWN!!

Historical inflation for the past 25 years has been 3%. There is no reason to believe that this historical rate will go down. If we are lucky it will continue to average 3% although the way things are going in this country, it may well exceed the averages we have seen the past 25 years. With that said, over the course of this 68 month contract, pay would have to increase 16.8% just to KEEP PACE with inflation!! The 717 pilots will see a total of 15% pay increase over 68 months. So hey 717 pilots, enjoy your 1.8% pay CUT!!! I guess you earned it huh? The 767 pilots will see a 20% pay increase over 68 months. So hey 767 pilots, I guess you guys are the big winners!!! A 3.2% increase in earning power at the end of this contract. And how long have you been in negotiations? I assume your pay has been at current rates since the contract became amendable in June 2007. So add another 31 months to the 68 month length of the contract and even the 767 pilots will have less earning power at the end of this contract than they had in June of 07. If you have been getting yearly raises, then disregard the extra 31 months.

You guys took pay cuts a few years ago to help the company, and now they are earning record profits and are one of the most successful airlines in the US, this is the best you can get?? We are doomed!! How is a decrease in earning power of 1.8% for 717 pilots and an increase of 3.2% for 767 pilots considered an acceptable contract from a company earning record profits in an economy trying to recover from the throes of the worst recession since 1929?........... Bueller? Bueller?

And spare me about quality of life issues. Cold hard cash in your hands every 2 weeks is what betters your quality of life. Instead of allowing turboprop feed and code share, what would have been wrong with negotiating a pay rate to fly those aircraft yourself and keep everything in house? Could it be the same old worn out and lame crap that has gone on for decades in this industry whereas pilot's hired and put on a major airlines seniority list are too good to fly turbo-props and rj's for a while?

So even when an airline is earning record profits, the pilots can't even get a contract that increases their earning power over the course of a contract. Another win for airline management!!

 

[FlickerFade]

Figures lie and liars figure.

If you don't work there and don't like the contract, you should be happy!

 

[Jim]

pipejockey,

It's easy to sit on the outside and pontificate without having any of the inside information.

I said many of the same things you posted and more during the voting to other HA pilots. But the reality is that our new contract puts us at the top of the pay scale for narrow body aircraft and 767s, and only below Delta for A330s. Plus our work rules, benefits and retirement are also some of the best in the industry. It is hard to get more when you're at or near the top in some areas and being offered increases to at or near the top in the others. If we had voted this down, the NMB probably would not have released us for a strike for years. In fact, they would probably have parked the negotiations for a long time before they got involved again and it probably would have been another 2 years before we got a contract. Despite this, there were 17% of us that voted. But I full understand why the other 83% voted yes. While I personally think we could have done better, I am very happy with what we got. We have outstanding pay, work rules, benefits and retirement. It is not a contract to be whine about or be ashamed of. It is damn good.

Edit: The other obstacle to HA pilots ever being released by the NMB for a strike was the fact that Hawaii's economy and people are extremely dependent on our inter-island flying. The NMB is mandated to consider this and it was suggested to us that this would preclude our being released to strike with the current economy and lack of inter-island options. We are a victim of our own success.

 

[pipejockey]

Figures lie and liars figure.

If you don't work there and don't like the contract, you should be happy!

If any of my above figures are as you say, lies! Then please correct these lies. The figures I have come up with are for all to see on any search on historical inflation rates. The percentages I used for what the HAL pilots will be getting in raises are directly from HAL's post above. If my figures are wrong, then at worst I would be incorrect, not a liar. I challenge anyone to tell me, and have evidence to support it, that the HAL pilots won't merely have at the very best, about the same earning power in 5 years that they have today. That does not constitute a pay raise, nor the moving forward of contract bargaining patterns.

And 83% voted in favor of this contract? BTW, any contract approved at other airlines, affect future contracts for the rest of us. I intend to vote a resounding NO, on any TA that doesn't significantly raise my earning power over the course of a contract. I do this not only for me, but for everyone else in this profession going forward. Cheers, to the 17% of HAL pilots that understand the concept of inflation and how it affects earning power, and voted no to this continuation of stagnant wages in our profession.:beer: