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H.R. 3371 Airline Safety and Pilot Training Improvement Act of 2009

ToThePain

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http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-3371

Is this really this close to being passed? Anyone know any more about this? This bill is the one that dictates all pilots:

SEC. 10. FLIGHT CREWMEMBER SCREENING AND QUALIFICATIONS.
http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:235http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:235
(a) Requirements-
http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:236http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:236
(1) RULEMAKING PROCEEDING- The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall conduct a rulemaking proceeding to require part 121 air carriers to develop and implement means and methods for ensuring that flight crewmembers have proper qualifications and experience.

http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:237http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:237
(2) MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS-
http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:238http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:238
(A) PROSPECTIVE FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that prospective flight crewmembers undergo comprehensive pre-employment screening, including an assessment of the skills, aptitudes, airmanship, and suitability of each applicant for a position as a flight crewmember in terms of functioning effectively in the air carrier’s operational environment.

http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:239http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:239
(B) ALL FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that, after the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, all flight crewmembers--
http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:240http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:240
(i) have obtained an airline transport pilot certificate under part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations; and

http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:241http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3371&version=rfs&nid=t0:rfs:241
(ii) have appropriate multi-engine aircraft flight experience, as determined by the Administrator.
 

luckytohaveajob

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http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-3371

(B) ALL FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that, after the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, all flight crewmembers--

A three year phase in is fair. It will prevent anyone from getting fired even if they were hired with 500 hours allowing them to get the 1500 hours total.

But it sure does reinforce the scam age 65 was with its immediate implementation effect one day as opposed to the day before. The over 60 crowd is embarrassing and I hope they get busted out quickly during their five month line checks!

Airline pilots flying on a commercial certificates are junior apprentices not real ATP's.
 

RedDogC130

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so I would assume if somone is at a regional with the low time and got furloughed and it goes through 3 years or enough for them not to aquire enough flight time, will they be out of a job even if recalled?
 

rigger

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so I would assume if somone is at a regional with the low time and got furloughed and it goes through 3 years or enough for them not to aquire enough flight time, will they be out of a job even if recalled?


As they should be...it's all about the experiance and they still may/maynot have it yet.
 

Bringupthebird

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A three year phase in is fair. It will prevent anyone from getting fired even if they were hired with 500 hours allowing them to get the 1500 hours total.

But it sure does reinforce the scam age 65 was with its immediate implementation effect one day as opposed to the day before. The over 60 crowd is embarrassing and I hope they get busted out quickly during their five month line checks!

So it's more important to protect a 500 hour pilot's job than to protect the travelling public from that same pilot's inexperience? Age 60 was not about safety, it was about creating an artificial means of moving a stagnant seniority system.

I doubt many will bust out. They'd see their impending bust and simply choose to retire rather than deal with the hassle.

I don't fault the over 60 crowd for continuing to fly if they are able. Moving the retirement age upward in response to greater life expectancy makes sense. It doesn't help me yet, but it makes sense.

Wishing ill on folks isn't how I'd want to get my promotion. The end doesn't justify the means.
 

ReverseSensing

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What in the world does having (or not having) an ATP have to do with low-time pilots or air traveler safety? Yes, some airline pilots don't have the time to get an ATP, but I'd also remind you that many, many regional FOs are flying on commercial tickets with several thousand hours. Some of us thought our airline would provide the ATP when we upgraded, but an upgrade has become a pipe-dream for many of us. Many of us probably won't upgrade in time.

It's a bit disgusting to think that a regional FO with 6-8,000 hours and 8 years in the right seat of an airline turboprop might have to go out and spend part of their meager salary to rent a Seminole to take an ATP ride. Of course, the airlines and the feds could probably figure out a way to make their next FO pro check an ATP ride, but that would require a certain generosity of spirit those parties are sorely lacking.

But hey, thanks for lumping my 6,000 hours TT and 5 years in the right seat (along with time flight instructing, hauling checks, and flying in the bush) in with the 250 hour academy dudes. Sorry my commercial ticket is such a threat to aviation safety.

Typical ********************ing FAA and congressional window-dressing and some of you geniuses who ought to know better are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker. Glug, glug, here fishy, fishy.
 
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PeanuckleCRJ

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What in the world does having (or not having) an ATP have to do with low-time pilots or air traveler safety? Yes, some airline pilots don't have the time to get an ATP, but I'd also remind you that many, many regional FOs are flying on commercial tickets with several thousand hours. Some of us thought our airline would provide the ATP when we upgraded, but an upgrade has become a pipe-dream for many of us. Many of us probably won't upgrade in time.

It's a bit disgusting to think that a regional FO with 6-8,000 hours and 8 years in the right seat of an airline turboprop might have to go out and spend part of their meager salary to rent a Seminole to take an ATP ride. Of course, the airlines and the feds could probably figure out a way to make their next FO pro check an ATP ride, but that would require a certain generosity of spirit those parties are sorely lacking.

But hey, thanks for lumping my 6,000 hours TT and 5 years in the right seat (along with time flight instructing, hauling checks, and flying in the bush) in with the 250 hour academy dudes. Sorry my commercial ticket is such a threat to aviation safety.

Typical ********************ing FAA and congressional window-dressing and some of you geniuses who ought to know better are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker. Glug, glug, here fishy, fishy.


It takes nothing more than a few minutes a a couple extra sheets of paper to turn an FO ride into an ATP ride.

This at least is setting minimum flight time and licensing standards that should have long been done...and will totally nip in the bud the pilot mills. I'm all for it.

There are always other issues to be addressed- at least congress is making a move in the right direction for once.
 

lookin4better

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I would say this looks like good news.... but in the end, just one more thing mommy and daddy with have to pay for with sooo many regional pilots.
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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Mommy and daddy can pay for say 200 or 300 hours in most situations of the sort.... 1500 hours is far out of reach for most anyone I can imagine.
 

208starcheck

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Mommy and daddy can pay for say 200 or 300 hours in most situations of the sort.... 1500 hours is far out of reach for most anyone I can imagine.


Yep, Welcome to flying night cargo trust fund babies.
 

jimcav

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I think a 135 checkout is acceptable in lieu of an atp. Back in the 90's it seemed to suffice.
 

Old Crow

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I flew with several new FO's at my last regional with less than 300 total hours. Good for them that they were given that opportunity, however, most of those flights were single pilot operations with the added complexity of undoing their mistakes. 1500 hours gives a pilot an opportunity to gain experience in the air and simply talking on the radio. Good thing.
 

Mike man

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It will only encourage people to pencil whip logbooks...any way, after the age 60 folks turn 65 in 3 more years, and the glut of high time CFI's and 135 people have been hired to regional airlines, say 3 or 4 years after the 65's retire how will the regional airlines get people with 1500 hours? It really is a downward spiral (no pun intended) if you start to think about it.

Now I do agree that 300 hour whiz kids are difficult to fly with for the first year or so, but how will a new airline pilot with 1500 hours be any different? They will still be elbows and a-holes for the first year or so...if they were not operating in that environment.

I am interested if I am one of the few who have thought this hard about this, so please interject your opinion.
 

surfnfly

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It will only encourage people to pencil whip logbooks...any way, after the age 60 folks turn 65 in 3 more years, and the glut of high time CFI's and 135 people have been hired to regional airlines, say 3 or 4 years after the 65's retire how will the regional airlines get people with 1500 hours? It really is a downward spiral (no pun intended) if you start to think about it.

Now I do agree that 300 hour whiz kids are difficult to fly with for the first year or so, but how will a new airline pilot with 1500 hours be any different? They will still be elbows and a-holes for the first year or so...if they were not operating in that environment.

I am interested if I am one of the few who have thought this hard about this, so please interject your opinion.

They can park the crj/erj's and replace them with 737/320's at mainline carriers with a descent salary and end this downward spiral that this profession has been in the last 15 years. If not the race to the bottom will never end. Remember when it took 3000+ hr just to sit right seat in a turboprop. Think about it, when you did get to the majors it was worth it, not now with a few exceptions(FedEX,UPS,SWA). It's Airline Management 101 and they are all laughing all the way to the bank at us all. Most make more in a month what we will make in a career and leave with a sweet pension to boot.
 

Skyboy722

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I flew with several new FO's at my last regional with less than 300 total hours. Good for them that they were given that opportunity, however, most of those flights were single pilot operations with the added complexity of undoing their mistakes.

I keep hearing this. I flew with a bunch of 250-300 hr FOs at my last job, and not in easy airspace. I really don't remember having any serious problems. The only issue I can remember was with one person with an attitude problem. (Unfortunately, because I hate to admit it, it turned out he flew one hell of a good airplane)

I don't recall any difference whatsoever between a new hire with 300 hours and a newhire with 2000. Everyone was just trying to learn a new airplane and new procedures. Can't blame anyone for that. And maybe I'm missing something, but has one of these low time FOs ever been found to be the cause of an accident, or is this all just political knee jerk?
 

Old Crow

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Experience can't be denied in any occupation. That's all that is being suggested. To imply that one who has fresh ink on their certificate is a seasoned pilot ready to take on the resposibilities of the 121 environment is plainly lacking in judgement. Can it work? Obviously it can. Is it wise? I think not. and it seems the FAA agrees with me.
 

labbats

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The issue is the reason for having an FO in the first place. It's to aid in decision making and take over in emergencies. A 300 hour pilot is capable of neither in a jet.
 

bluesideup340

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As they should be...it's all about the experiance and they still may/maynot have it yet.

you got it.
Certainly it take 30+ years experience and 20,000 hrs before somenone can overfly the destination by 150 miles and then returns to land safely.
That is nothing a young low time pilot could ever pull off.
 
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