GVSP or a Global Express?

[GVFlyer]

[ouote]Originally posted by GVFlyer
The FAA thinks it does. The G550/500 is a new type requiring a complete FAR Part 25 certification process equally as long as for the original GV.

Falcon is the same way, it's because the avionics display presentation is different. Boeing got around that with the NG by keeping the displays the same.

Actually, in addition to Planeview and all new New Generation Avionics, the wing and propulsion have been changed on the G550. Subsequently, three test aircraft are dedicated to the certification process: one for avionics, one for aerodynamics and one for propulsion / field performance / function and reliability testing.

In addition to longer range at increased speed and heavier weights the G550 also offers improved field performance when compared to the GV.

Originally posted by GVFlyer

By the way, I know you've flown at least seven GV's - you won't believe how the G550 with less drag and 6% more thrust outperforms the GV !

A brick will fly too, with enough power put to it.

Interesting comment in light of the fact that the G550 is the lowest drag most efficient transport category jet in the world.

To make dollars and sense out of it, consider the following: The G550 weighs 42% more than the Falcon 7X but will cost only 5.4% more per hour to fly (Dassault data). When compared to existing Dassault Falcon technology, the Falcon 900EX, the G550 weighs 86% more and costs just $57 or 3.7% more per hour to operate.

If the G550 gets any more efficient it will start making fuel in route and we'll have to dump fuel to land!

Originally posted by GVFlyer

And...how can anyone flying an airplane from a company that no longer makes airplanes call a current production jet an "OLD lady?"

At least I don't have to slip the airplane inorder to transfer fuel, did that in my 60's vintage Sabreliner. What other "modern" airplane, like the GV, uses that procedure.

Using the Intertank to transfer fuel is recommended only when the wing fuel temperature is less than 0 degrees Celcius.

Originally posted by GVFlyer


Fokker does, however, make great tails...

And of course, that will be the ONLY section on the GV that doesn't corrode.

If you should have a problem with your G550 all parts and labor are free for the first 5 years and the airframe is warrantied for 20 years

... I still think Falcon builds one of the best products out there...

Me, too. I've been to the production facility at Merignac and their completion center at Jet Aviation in Basel; I've seen first hand that when they're not eating Brie and sipping Bordeaux, the French make a pretty good airplane. I've long thought that the Falcon was a good airplane in search of a good engine. Now that Dassault has began to use Pratt and Whitney engines, the airplane can only improve. Their sales staff and demo pilots are a good group of guys as well. Jean Claude is so smooth, he could probably sell me a Falcon, but is too kind to try.

GV

 

[empenage]

WOW:

Gone for 2 weeks and just look what happens. Holy Pete.

Hogdriver00 and Fokkerjet, I owe you both a beer. If you have not heard it from anybody else you will hear it from me..."Good Job".

I'm only home for today. Tomorrow I have to take that unrealiable, unairworthy, fuel burning excuse for a airplane back to Zurich for a week!

Oh and I have to be honest....we did have a problem in the last 2 weeks. A bulb burned out above the sink in the galley. You bet it happened on the last leg on the way home.

Falcon Capt, looks like a 2000 is in the works for us! I cant wait!

Keep up the good work.

Empenage

 

[Jack Schitt]

GVFlyer,

Will Gulfstream ever make a wider cabin for the family? If not, why?

Any plans on the drawing board for a G600?

 

[banned username 2]

the French make a pretty good airplane. I've long thought that the Falcon was a good airplane

Did he just say what I THINK he said?!?!?!

I've long thought that the Falcon was a good airplane in search of a good engine. Now that Dassault has began to use Pratt and Whitney engines, the airplane can only improve.

Hey, it keeps our maintenance staff proficient at engine changes!

The 731-60's are nice engines when they work.... But bad seals is still an ongoing problem... I think one of our 900EX's has 2 loaners on it right now....

The -40's on the 50EX's have been fairing a bit better (knocking on wood!)

 

[GVFlyer]

GVFlyer,

Will Gulfstream ever make a wider cabin for the family? If not, why?



Probably not in the foreseeable future for a couple of reasons. Number one: the large oval windows are conformal to the curve of the fuselage which gives them strength. They were tested to 10 atmospheres during GV certification. If the GV went just 10 inches wider to match the cabin width of the GEX, the jet would end up with the same kind of low small windows. This in and of itself is a show stopper because the big windows sell airplanes.

Number two and more importantly is that it would alter Gulfstream's basic design philosophy. Let me explain. The thrust or propulsive power (Wpa) available determines the aircraft volume that can be propelled through the air at a given speed. As such, with the same engines, the volume of the GV and the GEX is roughly equivalent. Bombardier spent more of their volume on cabin, Gulfstream spent theirs on wing. The resultant is that the GEX is a high wing loading, point design, buffet limited airplane and the Gulfstream is not. Design limit speed on the GV occured when rudder CL beta went positive (fundamentally a control reversal) not because of buffet. As a matter of fact, serial number 501 went to Mach 1.07 during developmental test. What this means to you is a much more generous height velocity diagram.

For example in a 63,000 lb G550 at M.080 at 45,000 feet you can perform a 60 degree( 2 g) bank without encountering buffet. With the same conditions in the Global you would encounter buffet at 52 degrees or 1.62 g. In a 55,000lb G550, you can still do 45 degree banked turns at 51,000 feet.

Why this is important is that it gives you a huge window between compressibility and stall at altitude. These margins keep you safe if you encounter turbulence and mean that you don't have to descend if it gets hot. No Gulfstream pilot has ever had to look at a buffet chart to see if he could climb. Performance is paramount at Gulfstream.

Any plans on the drawing board for a G600?

The next jet on the drawing board is the Super Sonic Business Jet. It is in develoment and Gulfstream has received Defence Advanced Research Programs Agency money to assist in the development of quite boom technology.

GV

 

[fokkerjet]

[

Face it, it's a poor design that requires you to slip the airplane inorder to transfer fuel. Gulfstream early on let you turn off the pumps during x-feed, regardless of temperature, but I believe the pumps were freezing so Gulfstream revised the procedure.

How many Gulfsream pilots rave about it's fantastic ground handling qualities? I just loved the grabby brakes and heavy control forces? Ever fly with someone that doesn't have super-human upper body strength and struggles to rotate the airplane on takeoff (if you set takeoff trim per the AFM) and then struggles again to keep the nose from slamming on the ground on landing? We won't discuss the rudder forces required with engine loss on takeoff.

 

[GVFlyer]

Face it, it's a poor design that requires you to slip the airplane inorder to transfer fuel. Gulfstream early on let you turn off the pumps during x-feed, regardless of temperature, but I believe the pumps were freezing so Gulfstream revised the procedure.

Gulfstream engineers predicted that there would be the possibility of fuel boost pump freezing if turned off under some conditions of altitude and temperature when the wing fuel temperature was less than 0 degrees Celcius. Remember the jet is operating in conditions where the OAT may be approaching - 80 C. for periods of over 13 hours. There is no statistically significant incidence of this occuring in actual flight operations.

How many Gulfsream pilots rave about it's fantastic ground handling qualities? I just loved the grabby brakes and heavy control forces? Ever fly with someone that doesn't have super-human upper body strength and struggles to rotate the airplane on takeoff (if you set takeoff trim per the AFM) and then struggles again to keep the nose from slamming on the ground on landing?We won't discuss the rudder forces required with engine loss on takeoff.

Sensitive brakes normally occured as the result of local maintenance practices where the brake system was improperly bled. The current brakes are more tolerant of such practices. As an interesting aside, the brakes on the GV were the same assembly as used on a McDonald Douglas product. Gulfstream found a resonant frequency in the brakes resulting from the pulse frequency of the anti-skid and corrected the vibration. Boeing was aware of this condition on their jet and didn't think it was significant enough to fix.

The AFM take-off trim settings compensate for the possibility of an engine failure. As the Gulfstream has pod mounted engines above the longitudinal centerline the engines exert a significant down force when operating at take-off thrust on the ground. If an engine fails during take-off roll an aerodynamic tendency to pitch-up results. It is to compensate for this tendency, which by the way is characteristic of all jets with aft mounted engines above the longitudinal centerline, that the trim settings are derived. You can trim the jet to fly itself off the ground at Vr, but it isn't prudent to do so.

I have noticed that pilots who pull a long flare sometimes have difficulty landing the nose wheel. This is due to reduced dynamic pressure on the elevators at lowered speeds and the exaggerated landing attitude. Some of this, I think, is due to the fact that some pilots are not comfortable with the rate at which the ground is approaching on short final and subsequently begin their landing rotation early to minimize this effect. I use very little rotation as little is required with the ninety three and a half foot wing and do not begin it until almost in ground effect. I find this assists in point type landings and reduces landing roll because the nose wheel is on the ground sooner and full reverse thrust can be applied earlier in the landing sequence.

Concerning single engine rudder forces, I have done a lot of single engine operations in the jet and find rudder control forces to be relatively mild and controlability and maneuverability to be markedly good. FAR Part 25.147 calls for rudder forces to be no greater than 150 pounds when operating single engine in any flight regime. Gulfstream rudder control forces in no way, in any condition, ever come close to realizing this maximum.

GV








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[hogdriver00]

Did someone say beer?

Hogdriver00 and Fokkerjet, I owe you both a beer. If you have not heard it from anybody else you will hear it from me..."Good Job".

Anytime. Especially if you’re buying.

 

[GVFlyer]

WOW:


I'm only home for today. Tomorrow I have to take that unrealiable, unairworthy, fuel burning excuse for a airplane back to Zurich for a week!

At last something we can agree on. I assume you are taking it to Zurich because there is a Bombardier maintenance facility there. Besides being "unreliable, unairworthy, and a fuel burning excuse for a airplane," there are several other things we might be able to agree on about the Global Express:

- The autothrottles would take the short bus to school.

- The profile reversal in FLCH is fascinating - the way it will descend to capture a higher airspeed before resuming a climb. I bet you get to talk to a lot of nice controllers when using this feature.

- Some of Bombardier's weight saving ideas are innovational - no Pitch Trim backup, no Air to Air Heat Exchangers and no Automatic Emergency Descent Mode.

Some of the the Global's other features are equally intrigueing:

- I guess the reason you can't turn the yaw damper on until after takeoff is to test the crew for subtle incapacitation - the kick you get when it is engaged after take-off certainly makes me more alert.

- Speaking of yaw dampers - turn yours off at 45,000 feet or above and you will find that the Global exhibits unstable dutch roll characteristics. The resulting yaw oscillations will give you kind of a no-notice pilot proficiency evaluation.

It's interesting that the take-off charts assume that you are going to do a bleeds off take-off (there is a 4% performance penalty if you don't), but no-one actually knows how to do a bleeds off take off.

Oh and I have to be honest....we did have a problem in the last 2 weeks. A bulb burned out above the sink in the galley. You bet it happened on the last leg on the way home.

See I told you it was unreliable!


Relax, Empennage! I was just having a go at you. You were too easy a target of opportunity.

Have a good flight!

GV









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[empenage]

I'm here, no squaks. I even got a hanger! Lost of snow though. It's time for an early dinner and a flaming beer!

It is so sweet to have a great crew on a crossing. Im taking them out on the town tonight. Knowing my F/O, Zurich will never be the same!

Later.

P.S. What a great machine!! HA!

 

[bigD]

It's interesting that the take-off charts assume that you are going to do a bleeds off take-off (there is a 4% performance penalty if you don't), but no-one actually knows how to do a bleeds off take off.

::lowly piston pilot in the back raises his hand::


Sorry for the dumb question, but what exactly is a bleeds off takeoff? Is this just shutting off the bleed air to systems that use it (air conditioning?) to get maximum power out of the engines?

 

[TAG2]

You hit it on the head. A "bleeds off" takeoff is bleed air off. It generally will be an enviromental control and pressurization systems "OFF" for takeoff. This allows you to pull a few percent more from the engines because air is what cools turbine engines. When you turn off the bleeds, the engines have more air available for cooling allowing you to pull more out of them.

 

[bigD]

Ahhhh....makes sense! Thank you tag2!

 

[GVFlyer]

::lowly piston pilot in the back raises his hand::


Sorry for the dumb question, but what exactly is a bleeds off takeoff? Is this just shutting off the bleed air to systems that use it (air conditioning?) to get maximum power out of the engines?

Right you are, Amigo! Don't forget pressurization and anti-ice systems use engine bleed air as well. This normally is a maximum performance maneuver reserved for hot and high conditions, short fields, restrictive second segment climbs and so forth.

The procedure to use this feature on the G500 / G550 is pretty elegant: On the ground, main engine bleeds on, with the APU running, reach up and press the APU air button - the rest is automatic. The engine bleeds turn off for take-off and after takeoff the same system logic that inhibits AUTO functioning of the wing anti-ice below 1500 feet AGL on climb-out causes the ECS system to smoothly switch from APU air to Main Engine Bleed Air at 1500 feet AGL as you climb.

GV

 

[hogdriver00]

Busted!

Someone caught me entering the pattern this week.

 

[GVFlyer]

Awwwright! But it looks like you have spend a little smash in the overhead to get down landing speed. Wait! Wait! It's all a trick - the Navy always flys initial with the gear down and locked!













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[Duderino]

Salt Lick, phffff, try Stubbs dudes

 

[bigD]

Holy crap Duderino, what made you dig this thread up?
And hey, make the drive to Llano for some Cooper's!

 

[banned username 2]

Salt Lick, phffff, try Stubbs dudes

Both are VERY good... I have been to Stubb's more because of it's close proximity to the Marriott downtown... But the Salt Lick is excellent...!

And some day, I will have a long enough stay down there that BigD is gonna fly me out to Llano to try Cooper's!!!