GVSP or a Global Express?

[fokkerjet]

If I had $50 million to spend on either a BBJ or G550, I think I'd go out and find a late serial numbered GV and save $14 million. A quick look shows 3 G550's and 7 (really 4) GV's for sale now. There's gotta be some great deals out there!

By the way, just because Gulfstream renamed, "cleaned up" the airframe and added new avionics to the OLD lady, doesn't qualify it as new design

 

[hogdriver00]

Pitbull

It's like poking a pit bull with a stick through a fence. Why must we ask for more from GV???????

 

[bigD]

Well deftone, I was using a bit of hyperbole just to get a rise out of GVflyer, but I do honestly think the Citation X is a much better looking plane. The G-V is just long and thin. It's SO well proportioned - it's almost pedestrian. It's like looking at a Mecedes or Lexus sedan. Sleek, but kind of vanilla. There are no real "lines" on that plane. It looks like a pointy condom with wings and a tail.

Take a look at this Citation X :

I like the big beefy underside that starts just behind of the nose and gets bigger and bigger as it moves aft under the wing. I like the way the engines look like they belong on a jet 50% bigger in size. Take all this, add the razor thin leading edge of the wing, the tiny, low slung trailing link main gear, and that big @ss fairing (what the hell am I supposed to call it?) where the horizontal stabilizer connects with the vertical stab, and you have a jet that looks like it was designed by a guy younger than 85!

And if you want to see what I mean by lines, look at the crease in the fuselage that begins just behind and under the cockpit windows and back through the cabin door. Then look at the other crease just forward of the leading edge of the wing root. Awesome.

Hey, I realize I'm in the minority. That's fine by me - looks are a subjective thing. Besides, it means that my upgrade time will be that much faster when Citation X captains move "up" to something else!

 

[TAG2]

The GV hands down. It is an awesome airplane that just keeps setting new records. The reliability of the Gulfstreams is second to none and it doesn't have those tiny little square windows.

The Global has problems meeting the published numbers and isn't doing too well in the reliability category, from what I am hearing. The completion centers are/were having serious, serious problems with quality and meeting time lines that even remotely resembled what was expected.

 

[rice]

Big D

Not trying to imply anything but I took your last post and pulled out a few phrases from it. I think Freud (or Falcon Capt) would have a field day with this.



I was using a bit of hyperbole just to get a rise out of....
is a much better looking....
....is just long and thin. It's SO well proportioned....
Sleek, but kind of....
It looks like a pointy condom with.....

Take a look at this.....

I like the big beefy underside that starts just behind....
and gets bigger and bigger as it moves....
I like the way the....
look like they belong on a....
50% bigger in size.
Take all this, add the razor thin....
of the tiny, low slung....
and that big @ss....
(what the hell am I supposed to call it?)
where the horizontal connects with the vertical....
and you have a.....
that looks like it was designed by a guy younger than 85!

And if you want to see what I mean by lines, look at the crease in the....
that begins just behind and under the....
back door. Then look at the other crease just forward of the....
Awesome.

Hey, I realize I'm in the minority. That's fine by me - looks are a subjective thing. Besides, it means that my upgrade time will be that much faster when....

 

[bigD]

LMAO Rice! That's pretty funny, even if it's at my expense. My girlfriend always comments that I take my love for the Citation X "so far it's almost creepy!" I'll have to show her that. I'll never hear the end of it!

And not a WORD out of you, FalconCapt!

 

[banned username 2]

And not a WORD out of you, FalconCapt!

Hehehehe... I gotta agree with Rice on this one... even I got a little creeped out reading the grammical stylings of the Big D...

Hey, I love airplanes, but I don't LOVE airplanes if you know what I mean!

Sorry for the delayed response... working on some Estate Planning paperwork! UUgghh! I'm in the wrong profession! Those lawyers have legalized highway robbery! All to push a few papers!

 

[hogdriver00]

Global

Big D is right about the X. It looks like it's going 100kts just sitting on the ramp. I like it.

In the GV/GEX looks race I don't really see the difference. Same engines, about the same size, the GEX has a funny looking tail but on the other hand the GV looks like a GIII.

The Global has problems meeting the published numbers and isn't doing too well in the reliability category, from what I am hearing. The completion centers are/were having serious, serious problems with quality and meeting time lines that even remotely resembled what was expected.

True with respect to range and fuel burns.

As for the completion issues. That's what you get when you mix American expectations with European and Canadian cultures.

Ours has been VERY reliable.

 

[bigD]

THANK you, Hogdriver! I'm glad to know that I'm not completely nuts! Just partially...

And hey - car enthusiasts talk this way about their cars all the time! I'm just carrying it over to the aviation realm.

Or at least that's what my therapist tells me I should say.

 

[GVFlyer]

By the way, just because Gulfstream renamed, "cleaned up" the airframe and added new avionics to the OLD lady, doesn't qualify it as new design[/B]

The FAA thinks it does. The G550/500 is a new type requiring a complete FAR Part 25 certification process equally as long as for the original GV.

By the way, I know you've flown at least seven GV's - you won't believe how the G550 with less drag and 6% more thrust outperforms the GV !

And...how can anyone flying an airplane from a company that no longer makes airplanes call a current production jet an "OLD lady?"

Fokker does, however, make great tails...

GV

 

[banned username 2]

The FAA thinks it does. The G550/500 is a new type requiring a complete FAR Part 25 certification process equally as long as for the original GV.

Oh boy I can't believe I am going to add fuel to this fire, but here goes!

The "New" Falcon 900EX with the EASy cockpit will be a completely new type rating too... Same "Old" airplane design (except an avionics upgrade) and the FAA requires a completely new type rating...

History has proven that the FAA isn't always the best judge of what should require a new type rating and what shouldn't...

Lets review... LR-JET type rating covers the following:
Lear 23 (all variants)
Lear 24 (all variants)
Lear 25 (all variants)
Lear 28
Lear 29
Lear 31/31a
Lear 35/35a
Lear 36
Lear 55/55c

Now a guy could go get a type rating in a 55 and then go out and fly a 23 or 24.... Anyone who knows anything about Lears knows how dangerous of an idea this would be!

The FAA may make the rules, but it doesn't mean they have a clue...

 

[fokkerjet]

The FAA thinks it does. The G550/500 is a new type requiring a complete FAR Part 25 certification process equally as long as for the original GV.
Falcon is the same way, it's because the avionics display presentation is different. Boeing got around that with the NG by keeping the displays the same.

By the way, I know you've flown at least seven GV's - you won't believe how the G550 with less drag and 6% more thrust outperforms the GV !

A brick will fly too, with enough power put to it.

And...how can anyone flying an airplane from a company that no longer makes airplanes call a current production jet an "OLD lady?"

At least I don't have to slip the airplane inorder to transfer fuel, did that in my 60's vintage Sabreliner. What other "modern" airplane, like the GV, uses that procedure.

Fokker does, however, make great tails...

And of course, that will be the ONLY section on the GV that doesn't corrode.

I do make fun of the GV, it is a nice airplane, but I don't buy into the fact it's the best out there. I have no experience with the GEX, other than what people have told me about it, but I still think Falcon builds one of the best products out there. It doesn't compete with the GV in class, but I still think its designed and built better than the Gulfstream line.

 

[Snakum]

Anyone know the DOC of a BBJ? It's gotta be a guzzler compared to the G550/GEX.

Minh

 

[GVFlyer]

Anyone know the DOC of a BBJ? It's gotta be a guzzler compared to the G550/GEX.

Minh

Hourly Direct Operating costs from "Conklin and deDecker":

BBJ - $2510

GEX - $1698

G550 - $1608

GV

 

[hogdriver00]

GEX

Hourly Direct Operating costs from "Conklin and deDecker":

I would have to disagree with those numbers. Ours has been cheaper and we've had a 99% DR.

 

[GVFlyer]

You can advise Conklin and de Decker of your concerns at the location most convenient to you. They are generally accepted as the international source for non-biased and accurate aviation information and are used as such by aviation manufacturers, aircraft brokers and buyers as well as such periodicals as "Aviation Week and Space Technology".

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GV

 

[hogdriver00]

Relax

Relax GV I'm not taking any shots at C & D I'm just saying that ours falls below that average number that they publish.

I'm sorry if I in any way besmirched your image of the GV being the ONLY aircraft that should be allowed in the sky.



Hog

 

[banned username 2]

Re: Relax

I'm sorry if I in any way besmirched your image of the GV being the ONLY aircraft that should be allowed in the sky.

Hehehehehehehe......

 

[GVFlyer]

Re: Relax

Relax GV I'm not taking any shots at C & D I'm just saying that ours falls below that average number that they publish.

I'm sorry if I in any way besmirched your image of the GV being the ONLY aircraft that should be allowed in the sky.



Hog

I was trying to be good by using an unbiased source rather than me which some of you don't recognize as being the truly objective resource that I am.

I did some stabilized cruise points in the Global that I flew that didn't come out nearly as good as Conklin and deDecker or the Global Cruise Manual predicted they would. If you get a chance, see how your GEX checks out compared to the one I piloted:


Conditions: ISA - 45,000 feet -.............0.85...........0.865 (max attained speed)
64,700±200 lbs.

Cruise manual fuel burn:.......................1410..........1535

Observed fuel fuel burn:........................1615..........1795

Percent difference:...............................14.2%........16.6%


And if yours is better, don't say, "It must be the pilot."


GV









.

 

[hogdriver00]

more to come

I did some stabilized cruise points in the Global that I flew that didn't come out nearly as good as Conklin and deDecker or the Global Cruise Manual predicted they would. If you get a chance, see how your GEX checks out compared to the one I piloted:

I will next week.

I was trying to be good by using an unbiased source rather than me which some of you don't recognize as being the truly objective resource that I am.

Some of us? You mean there is someone else out there besides you that think you are unbiased?