Guns In The Cockpit

[starcheckdriver]

Do any charter companies allow their pilots to be armed? No company names need to be mentioned. Also, for your charter pilots, how would you feel about a FFDO program for charter like they have for 121 pilots? Sometimes I feel like we are more defenseless in the cockpit than airline pilots, especially in those cockpits without doors to the cabin.

 

[Going2Baja]

You scare me.

Baja.

 

[CaptainSpaz]

There is no need for a FFDO program for 135. The authority is already there. It is up to the discretion of the operator. The sticky part is where local laws come into effect on the ground.

Spaz

 

[starcheckdriver]

The authority is already there. It is up to the discretion of the operator.
Spaz

Where does this autority come from? Or is it just the case that nothing in the regs prevents it?

 

[Catnhat]

FAR 135.119 (b)

 

[stknrdr]

Hey badguy, ever heard of URT?

If you've got a comprehensive 135 Manual it should also address this issue either pro or con. The company likely won't want anywhere near that liability.
We've had crews transport armed individuals escorting high profile prisoners and I agree its uncomfortable, but there's a reason the pilots have a 5-point harness and if it starts to get ugly you can bet I'll put mine to good use.

 

[TrafficDawg]

The on-demand outfit I work for screens our customers very carefully. Positive ID, no-cash policy, mostly repeat clients anyway. I used to be an LEO (Law Enforcement Officer), and I can truthfully say that when I'm flying, I am focused solely on the safety of the airplane and pax. The last thing I want to do is to be carrying - chances are a bad guy will wind up taking the firearm away while I'm busy and use it on me or someone else. In a secured cockpit environment under 121 rules, maybe - 135, no way.

 

[AA717driver]

Guns in the cockpit? Only if they won't fit in the back. How about golf clubs? TC

 

[Going2Baja]

Go ahead - make a move on the cockpit and see how it feels to be pinned to the ceiling and then bounce around the cabin like a ping pong ball - all while the cabin is being dumped at FL410!!

I'll take my chances without the gun - thanks.

BTW - TrafficDawg is right on!

Baja.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

let me guess....you're from Kalifornia. We fully expect you to be afraid of guns. You have no choice either, your government wont let you have one on yourself anyhow! - (regardless of what the Constitution says) You guys get what you deserve. Only the gangbangers and criminals can have weapons in Kali.

as far as your heroic acrobatics and pressurization dumps at FL410. good luck with that after your throat is slit or you're shot in the noggin.

I do agree a gun may not do any good in an open cockpit like 135 operations. ..but not that someone is going to take it (you are trained right?) but you wont even see thiers coming...I would not want ot be flying any sizeable aircraft (read target) 135 these days, period.

As far as trusting your life to your employers "screening" process. Jesus that scary! but again, kinda expected from Kalifornians!

If for any reason some terroritst wanted your little learjet all he has to do is call a broker, get a flight, put a pistol in his briefcase, walk through the pretty FBO (uhh...security?), hop in back, have a coke, let you climb to XXXX ALT - and then walk up and shoot you in the head. Its now his. Nevermind your acrobatics and pressurization antics buddy - you never saw it coming.

Now, consider yourself lucky that most learjets wouldnt do much damage and may not be a real target. notice I said MAY. glad Im not in that situation to wonder.

"pin them to the cieling and dump the cabin"




are you freakin' kidding me there Patty Wagstaff?!!

.

 

[timeoff]

Concealed weapons laws are different by state, and when you land in a state that says carrying a gun is illegal, you just broke the law. Not to mention that it is a felony to have a firearm inside of an airport's "sterile area". You would have to have it locked in a case, separate from your ammo which is locked in another case. Pointless! You might as well just throw your gun at him.

Don't get me wrong, I am a CCW holder myself and think everyone has the right to carry. It's just that many states don't see it that way.

 

[Going2Baja]

If for any reason some terroritst wanted your little learjet all he has to do is call a broker, get a flight, put a pistol in his briefcase, walk through the pretty FBO (uhh...security?), hop in back, have a coke, let you climb to XXXX ALT - and then walk up and shoot you in the head. Its now his. Nevermind your acrobatics and pressurization antics buddy - you never saw it coming.

Yes I'm from Cali, born and raised in So Cal. Love guns - have plenty. But as you said, as a pilot we would have no warning. Click - boom - dead. In an airliner I would be all for going to FFDO training. But with no door and only a curtain seperating me from the pax, I think having a firearm would only endanger the a/c. I maybe wrong, but it's just my opinion.

Baja.

 

[soarby007]

You may have a sense of security with a gun in the cockpit. Probably a false sense of security. Shooting tin cans and paper targets doesn't remotely compare to 1)finding your gun in a cockpit with everything else in a very roomy corporate cockpit 2)deciding on what to do in a matter of milli-secondsand 3) refocusing your current thought process to a life or death matter. Sometimes you can't control your destiny.

There is no clear answer to this. But there is always pros and cons to consider. Take the darn thing if it floats your boat and pay the consequences if necessary. I was always told it's best to be judged by a jury of 12 than carried by 6.

 

[CaptainSpaz]

huh?

I was always told it's best to be judged by a jury of 12 than carried by 6.

I am a little foggy on what that means or how it applies to what you were trying to say...

 

[freightdogfred]

I am a little foggy on what that means or how it applies to what you were trying to say...

Well, judged by 12 is in a courtroom ya know, a jury of yours peers.... carried by 6 as in like pallbearers, the dudes who carry ya out in a nice pine box an inna suit and stuff...

 

[CaptainSpaz]

Well, judged by 12 is in a courtroom ya know, a jury of yours peers.... carried by 6 as in like pallbearers, the dudes who carry ya out in a nice pine box an inna suit and stuff...

Let me rephrase my question, since Fred has helped me master the obvious:

1) When in particular is it better to be judged by your peers rather than dead?

2) How does this apply to the topic of this thread?

3) Who "always" told you this soarby007 and in what context did they use the phrase?

 

[timeoff]

I think what he meant was that it is better to be arrested and charged with illegally carrying a gun, than getting a .45 cal lobotomy. Granted the odds are miniscule an event requiring one would transpire, but some guys feel it is their right to carry a gun per the 2nd ammendment, regardless of what an employer says.

 

[Snakum]

The company where I tag along considered allowing firearms, but decided that my farts are noxious enough to disarm any wild-eyed looney with an agenda.

I always wondered why the PICs donned the O2 mask as part of the Final Items check before taking the runway. :nuts:

 

[CaptainSpaz]

I think what he meant was that it is better to be arrested and charged with illegally carrying a gun, than getting a .45 cal lobotomy. Granted the odds are miniscule an event requiring one would transpire, but some guys feel it is their right to carry a gun per the 2nd ammendment, regardless of what an employer says.

Aaah, I see. I hadn't read it that way, or ever heard that expression.

 

[pipejockey]

What about the part 121 carriers that fly the 1900. Is there a door in that plane or is it wide open? I would certainly want a firearm if I were in one of those things.