Guns in the Cockpit

[Slug]

demo tape

There was a demo tape on the internet a while back (about a year ago) that American Pilots had on one of their pages that showed some special forces guys storming two cockpits - one defended (poorly) by a taser and one by a 9mm. Anyone know the link. It was quite a good demo.

Slug

 

[jon coqtoestone]

A gun is a tool. It's neither good or evil in and of itself. Some people who are unfamiliar with weapons act as if they are the metallic equivalent of a p*ssed-off rattlesnake. Having spent most of my life around weapons, I assert that it just ain't so. It's an inert object, it's the person carrying it that makes it dangerous or not.

Reminds me of a bumper sticker I heard about:

"Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns."

Cheers!

 

[Clownpilot]

Sense?

1) In the last extremities, when they've killed the flight attendants and they're smashing down the cockpit door with the 300 lb drink cart, I guess some of you will choose prayer over having the last say about whether you and every person on that airplane lives or dies. Frankly I want the option of shooting him rather than having him just kill me and take my airplane. I don't understand anybody who doesn't want that chance. Plus, having a terrorist know you might be armed is the deterrence we need to keep him from trying it in the first place.

2) I don't have to practice regularily. This is for someone in a confined space less than 5 feet away trying to grab me. I'm not gonna be standing in the cockpit door trying to get a head shot on a terrorist in the aft galley at 150 ft. Assuming I can pull the trigger I'll hit him at that range.

3) Carrying a gun is a responsibility just as flying 200 people at a time around is. My responsibility is to keep them alive by keeping me alive and not surrendering control of a 400,000 lb aircraft to anyone. As for accidents, well on occasion, here and there, my "carelessness" while cleaning the gun in the cockpit is gonna gain me a seniority number. But I'd think after 2 or 3 "accidents" the company is probably gonna catch on.

 

[CRJFlyer]

From what I've heard each and every pilot will have the OPTION of carrying or not.. Of course they will go through the training to carry etc.. On the overnights and such there can be no drinking or anything else of that nature.. But I also heard something about being able to choose whether or not you carry it for that particular trip.So say a trip to New Orleans would mean you'd leave your piece at home. Security would be vastly different for those carrying.I would assume it would much like a police officer going through the detector while in uniform, while working at the terminal..

Hey Blue Bayou, I know what the cameras are really going to be used for..looking at my ex-girlfriend bend over while giving the blue chips to the passengers in row one. When we broke up all the good guys at JB were trying to get in her pants.

 

[flyndesk]

why try to hijack an airliner when it means you're probably going to be shot dead?

You make some valid points, except for this one. Suicide and martydom is the ultimate sacrifice to these "people", with promises in the afterlife (ie, the guys on 9/11, suicide bombers, etc.)

I will still choose not to carry. You may carry, your choice.

Funny note, my buddy is a police officer. His friend in the FBI was flying as an LEO (Law Enforcement Officer, so with his gun) on a US airline. He got the gun through security ok, but the confiscated his Swiss Army knife. I kid you not.

 

[FastCargo]

For what it's worth...

Personally, I do agree with having firearms in the cockpit. That being said, I think there will be some difficulties in implementing the program (security concerns and controls, proficiency, etc).

I liked Ty Webbs suggestion, with the weapons being part of the aircraft checklist. In addition, I would suggest:

1) The lock box is a two-person concept, the captain and F/O getting a separate combo at dispatch for the locks. The combos would be changed by MX at every crew change before reissue.

2) The preflight would consist of opening the container, checking the firearm is in place (with a breakable seal on the firearm itself) then closing the container in a ready-open manner - say a one digit tick to reopen, or something to that effect...

3) The weapon would be a special type, with non standard caliber (.42 cal, etc)...or even a special shaped bullet (oval cross section, etc). The weapon would also be useless once completely expended (ie an intergal magazine, etc). The weapons and ammo would serialed, and associated with that exact aircraft serial number.

4) The ammo could be the plastic slug type...or glazer (sp?) safety slug type...low chance of bulkhead penetration, but devestating when hitting human flesh. Remember, the weapon/ammo combo doesn't have to be super accurate...you're only shooting a max of 2 yards...

5) Postflight would consist of respinning the combo locks...

I think the initial cost would be high (R/D for the weapon, lockbox, documentation, implementation)...but then the actual day to day ops would be fairly low on the pain scale.

This is just one man's opinion ... plus I'll the first to note I have probably overlooked some critical sticking points. Any and all constructive points of view are welcome.

Fly Safe!

FastCargo

 

[Patriot328]

Here's the link from APA's website showing the video they made with the Taser and the gun.


http://www.alliedpilots.org/Public/InfoCenter/streaming_media.asp

 

[Slug]

Good Video

Thanks Patriot

 

[ETXflyer]

Agree/Disagree

FastCargo, I must agree that I can't imaging why a thinking, reasonable person would not think that guns are a good idea, but I've got to disagree with you about the lock box stuff. Guns aren't nukes. If a pilot wants to carry, then they should be trained and certified to do so without a bunch of hoops to jump through. Commissioned law enforcement officers are allowed to carry on flights without any special "lock boxes" and I don't see any reason why a person who is responsible enough to make it in our business wouldn't be responsible enough to carry and keep up with a firearm. I am glad to see this finally make it in to law and I hope that a simple program is put discretely into place at all carriers. Just my .02
ETX